Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

Still in support of taxation. Independent Schools should never have been allowed charitable status.

But I need my yacht dahhling! Otherwise I will be taking a <shudder> poor person's place on the ferry!

No. No more tax. I already pay substantially more than most people, and I’m not paying a penny more.

Not one penny.

i was expecting a sob story and instead all I got was “our daughter will instead be going to an excellent school”

okay???? good for you? why on earth would that change my mind?

In all honesty, I don't think that would make much difference.

Can you correct your facts please? Starmer went to a grammar school which later converted into a private school. That’s completely different from what you’ve said.

Odd post. Why do you think strangers will care about this?

I think the point is a lot of kids aren't on ECHP's because they are almost impossible to get unless you go to appeal - so parents that get turned down look at the private sector. There are many threads on here requesting help after being turned down with ECHP''s.

When I read the thread title, I was expecting a real sob story. 😂 But I got to the end and just inwardly shrugged..

Our DC are grown up. We paid school fees. We also paid a huge amount of tax, some of which went towards the state education budget.

I have no objection to VAT on school fees. However, I do believe there shoukd be corresponding tax relief for those who opt to use the independent sector.

aside from the fact that VAT on private school fees will make those that remain even more exclusive and elitist

Nobody lost their place , you cannot lose what you don’t have .

EHCPS paying up to £17k? What bollocks

That isn’t how EHCP works. And frankly £17k is cheap compared to private specialist provision.

She’s is not expecting any sympathy.

she's explaining how she’s changed her behaviour as a result of the policy - and she’s making 2 main points:

1. that her dd has pushed another child off the bottom of the list for the state school she got into - and that if this happens on a larger scale, many children will be pushed off the bottom of the list for their preferred state school

2. that she will save more than 100k and use it for an extra holiday and to give as a gift to her dd - thereby giving her dd a huge leg up in life

so overall, OP’s point is that the policy isn’t hurting her as a rich person, but is hurting others (such as the pushed out child). And Starmer is not having any VAT money from her dd’s education.

This is the nub of it, I think!

Still agree, still think people like you with a sob story like this are wankers. HTH.

I think the argument that you are missing is that private school education gives an unfair advantage to privileged children who can then sharp elbow their way into the top universities and jobs, and exacerbates The already crippling levels of inequality we have in our society. Therefore, why on earth should those schools which exacerbate inequality be also treated to vat exemption when they are clearly businesses.

Like you say you could’ve afforded to stay in private school and many people will. The actual change in numbers is not going to be huge as far as I recall from the stats I’ve seen

I think you are over estimating the importance of an outstanding versus a good school

The quality of schooling waxes and wanes with changing staff/leadership, this is normal, and you may find that your outstanding school is actually not so outstanding after a couple of years, likewise if you go into a school that struggling you may find that it’s actually exceptional fairly quickly. Those are the breaks.

To all those of you who understandably worry about the mental health of children having to be moved schools when their parents decided to no longer send them to private schools and touchingly worry about the poor normal kids having to go to a non outstanding school-I look forward to seeing you being equally as vocal about the rental housing crisis, which sees families moved out of areas where they have lived for generations because of gentrification, wealthy people buying up second homes and the obscene and rocketing price of rents which means children have to move house and school not just once but multiple times. Look forward to seeing you banging the drum for child mental health on those threads ladies!

What if she doesnt want to go to uni?

It isn’t a sob story. OP is perfectly happy.

She is trying to explain the consequences of the policy.

Don't be so ridiculous!

Plenty of wealthy parents have a stake in lovely outstanding schools. These schools have thriving PTAs and have loads of parental input and support. These same parents do not give a crap about the sink school on the wrong side of town, other than to make sure they live close enough to the nice school to ensure their darlings have no danger of going to the wrong school. The state sector is absolutely rife with state funded inequality.

Where is the ambition to tackle that much more obvious and prolific source of inequality? It doesn't exist! Why? Because this would strike at the heart of the elite Left, ths Alistair Campbells and Keir Stammers of this world that had the privilege (and yes it is a privilege) to attend a good state school for free and boy don't they wear their 'state school' bad with pride. Meanwhile those of us who went to genuinely below average state schools can only marvel at their idea of what a state education actually looks like.

Private schools are just a popular dog whistle but they are not the root of inequality and have sod all to do with improving the education of the deprived.

From my point of view, it’s about equality of opportunity. I would prefer that the same, good education was available to everyone, and that the current system where money can buy you privilege in education ended. It’s not like buying a yacht: a yacht is a luxury, and not necessary. An education is not a luxury, and is entirely necessary. All children deserve equality of opportunity in education. What they choose to do with the opportunity is up to them, but no child should be educationally disadvantaged because their parents cannot afford to pay privately.

Then she will have even more money, not having to pay fees.

Im confused. As terrible as that is…and it is. It has nothing to do with VAT being applied to private schools fees. Nor will it impact that issue positively in any way.

I'd abolish all fee paying education if it was in my gift.

£12k a year in savings and an extra winter holiday. How the other half live! Even an outstanding state school is not everything, plenty are rated good including where my kids go. They are happy there and that's what really matters as long as the academic side is not utterly dreadful. There are far worse things to tax than school fees for the very well off. And though you may not think it, if you can afford private school to begin with you are very well off.

I have read this and I'm telling you I still agree with VAT on school fees. It's not a case of individual cases, nor of all those self-pitying posts about ' I can only afford school fees because we live in 'ole in middle o' road. ' Private schools are a business, and a luxury business at that. To exempt them from VAT is unjust and inequitable. [And we sent our kids private for parts of their education ( we didn't pay VAT, but we did suck up the above inflaction fee increases - we could afford it, we didn't pull them out of their schools, and we didn't wring our hands about it)]