Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

I have frequently commented on here that the 'right' child will achieve academically at a good state school

Yes, true but the hard fact is that not all state schools are good.
One or two round here are barely adequate and, in an LEA area with small towns and only one comprehensive school per town, it's often Hobson's choice.
So many pupils seem to be disruptive now that it makes it difficult for teachers to teach successfully.

And who or what is the right child?

All children should have same opportunity for a decent education whatever their academic potential.

That's a very narrow view, there are plenty of obnoxious MPs who did not go to public schools.
As well as decent MPs who did.

There are many private schools in the UK, not all (very few) are like Eton.

Are we to judge all privately educated people by a few - or one ex PM?

@felissamy - how many Etonian’s do you personally know? Like really know?

Yep. The catchments of the state schools in my area were relaxed a few years ago to allow students from less affluent areas in which resulted in a massive drop in Ofsted ratings as management and teaching styles needed to change to accept children of less engaged parents. That has now stopped and catchment areas for primaries and secondaries have been tightened so it’s no more than 1.5 miles to specifically exclude the deprived areas - it was the first thing our LA did when VAT on private school fees were announced.

One of the local state primaries has also had their pool reopened as a group of new parents (from the private school) decided to donate the running costs. That pool is of no benefit to anyone other than that state primary.

I really know 2. But they jumped for the Socialist Workers Party.

I've heard it all now we need private schools because .... the poor....... Ha ha ha ha ha fucking ha. The lack of self consciousness on the part of those who have decades of "elite uni education ". Are you actually a comic in downtime from Edinburgh Fringe??

@Felissamy - if you restrict educational choices in the most poor and deprived areas, it leads to even more poverty because more middle class people like GPs, teachers etc then shun the area entirely. I think critical thinking and nuance is perhaps not your strong point? Let’s hope you are just a keyboard warrior with some silly ideas, rather than a Russian bot.

Having family who actually grew up in socialist countries and having spent years in Russia, I know a thing or two about socialism in practice. Do you? Which socialist countries do you actually have experience of? Or are you chasing some lofty non workable ideals?

@Araminta1003 oh it must be so wonderful to have experience of absolutely everything and be so confident that you're right about everything and have nuance and critical thinking as strong points. How much for lessons please?

There have not been any socialist countries, FYI....and to improve outcomes everyone needs a stake in the educational system rather than some buying their way out. Also, check your prejudice with your disgusting assumption only middle class students have intelligence. I say this as a Prof who came from council house and comp school and with a working class background of socialist/anarchist parents who facilitated critical learning. OK?

Come on then, have you been to Russia, Cuba and China and if so, when? How long for?

There have never been socialist countries? ahem. So what were the above exactly?

@felissamy - where did I say only middle class students have intelligence?

All I said is if you want middle class professionals to work in deprived areas it can be difficult to recruit these locally, if there are largely underperforming and deprived schools. Offering selective or private in those areas is sometimes a necessary compromise.

@routecause - at least I have worked in the real world and lived in multiple countries, unlike some others on here.

@Araminta1003 as have I, and my family and friends.

But we are not insufferable, sneering, condescending, sarcastic know-it-alls.

Oh come on! You’re trying to tell me that the reason Tower Hamlets is deprived is because there aren’t any private schools there?

Ofsted won’t have dropped because catchments have changed.

Schools in very deprived areas still get excellent Ofsted results.

10 parents from my niece's year are taking their kids out and into an outstanding state school. Next year is going to be v interesting for both camps

Is this at a transition stage such as KS2 to 3?

Nope. But if they have siblings , they're pulling them out too.

@App13 "10 parents from my niece's year are taking their kids out and into an outstanding state school. Next year is going to be v interesting for both camps"

Good that an outstanding school had 10 places in one year-and all 10 families live close enough to the school to be sure of places! There's a thread somewhere about strangest coincidences.....

Whereabouts is this? It is unusual for any school to have 10 spaces in one year group. The absolutely least popular ones may be in that situation depending on location. Are you sure they have done their research properly?

Lord knows, but they live in the Twickenham, Teddington, Richmond areas and are surrounded by decent state schools. As a consequence they're consolidating the year group in the school.

And closing the nursery down to free up funds.

“Oh come on! You’re trying to tell me that the reason Tower Hamlets is deprived is because there aren’t any private schools there?”

@Tiredalwaystired No, I wasn’t talking about London at all. I was talking about the NE and Midlands and certain deprived areas there. London schools are very good overall.

@routecause “But we are not insufferable, sneering, condescending, sarcastic know-it-alls.”

Oh the double irony. You are just embarrassed because one of your fellow anti private/seiective school posters has revealed themselves as a full on socialist idealist. And that is exactly what we all know is at the route of these policies and the electorate hasn’t signed up to full on socialism.

To be fair, we’re in Lambeth and DS’s year group has about 12 spaces (across two forms - PAN is 60, there are about 24 kids in each class). Outstanding school (inspection earlier this year) that was oversubscribed a couple of years ago when we joined. Just lots of people moved out of London. The school is also going down to one form entry from this year though 🤷‍♀️

Many primary schools around here only have 25 kids in classes with a PAN of 30. They are all outstanding - the really unpopular schools have already shut or merged. Different story at secondary school.

I think you misread. I said a catchment area of hundreds of square miles, not hundreds of miles from a school. It’s not at all unusual rurally to be 30+ miles between state high schools (which would be a catchment area of approximately 900 square miles).

There are catchments orders of magnitudes larger though.

While I appreciate there are places where people have a choice of several state schools, that is not a reality for large parts of the country, which means if that state school is unsuitable for some reason, choices are limited to what is actually physically nearby.