Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

Just corrected the tonnes of typos!

@newmummycwharf1

Do how do private schools help with equity?

Equity: The idea that everyone should be treated fairly and justly, taking into account their individual circumstances and needs

Equality: The idea that everyone has the same value and should be treated the same, regardless of their differences or needs

Everyone getting the same leads to inequality. We are not all starting from the same base. Private schools can contribute to equity by providing alternatives styles/scope of learning that address differences. And decompressing the state sector so the money goes further.

The issue I see is they are now so overpriced that few can afford them - so I personally think the addition of VAT is a good thing as the private school leadership have to sit and think about the direction of the sector. If 30% of students were privately educated - and the state education pot was redistributed across the remain 70% (not reduced) - think about how the experience could significantly improve.

We know the per student funding needs to increase. £5k odd is not enough - in private it is closer to £15k. But say the overall funding for state schools was £5billion and they educated 100k students. The per student funding would significantly increase if the same £5billion was distributed across 70k students for example.

All wishful thinking but abolishing private schools so that the 100k becomes 110k with no additional investment is not going to help anyone. But I suppose you would feel better since it would all be 'equal'

I have no idea what you are talking about and I suspect neither do you. Since when did OFSTED start training ‘educators in UK’?

That’s a bit unfair. The last school I worked in got ‘outstanding’. It is and was very, very far from outstanding imo.

What a disgusting comment. Kids are kids. Some are lovely, some are frankly vile. Throughout my career, I’ve only come across a couple of the vile ones in private school (perhaps because classes are smaller or because they are more inclined to hide it). Going to the local comp does not give a child a better personality 🤦‍♀️ There are plenty of children there who are selfish, spoiled, put on a pedestal by their parents, treat others with disdain or hostility or a combination of these things. There are also plenty who are delightful. State schools do not produce ‘better people’ as is made quite evident by your judgy comment.

Are the universities In UK regulated by Ofsted? Yes they are.
Because what Ofsted training you have completed otherwise? Are you saying that you are trained as an inspector by Ofsted? And do you want me to believe that an inspector is openly criticising the institution and the Ofsted process? That would be very hypocritical to work there and publicly criticise the school inspection system. And very risky to speak about it in public domain in a negative way.

@Moglet4 Imagine what non Outstanding schools are like then....

@Moglet4
There are also plenty who are delightful.

Or only appear to be. My son has two peers in his class. One is clumsy and often runs into trouble because he hasn't got ifea how to avoid being caught on simple silliness. Apart from that sharing empathetic boy. The other one at school is an angel. Behind teachers' backs he awfully swears, endlessly boasts and destroys other kids work. A little devil in disguise. You never know as a teacher what lies beneath 👿😇

I support the imposition of VAT on school fees.
Good tax systems are progressive, better off individuals should pay proportionally more tax than less well off people. A large subsidy on costs incurred primarily by better off people disrupts progressive tax.
By giving tax relief on one form of expenditure you distort people's spending decisions, in this case leading to more people seeking to pay for private education than otherwise would. While sometimes such distortions are good, high taxes on cigarettes for example, they are generally undesirable.
I am pleased that your DD has a place at a school you value and don't understand your faux guilt about it.
Finally I am far more concerned about the children in the UK living in poverty. How do you feel about those children?

Let's have a little discussion about private schools and the wonderful people that packed the Tory cabinet! Compassion - in spades, humility - lashings of it, understanding of the way in which most people live - unsurpassed, desire to better things and not just help their mates - immense etc etc...truly better than us.

🤣trust me, you usually do!

I know, I’ve taught in them too

They went to public school, not your average day private. There’s a world of difference. I’m also quite sure there are some lovely kids in public school too. I’m glad that I take individuals as they come and don’t tar everyone with the same brush. I doubt your kids are all that lovely if they judge the world the same way you do.

As I thought. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Thanks for confirming.

yeap, @Newrumpus safest thing to say after your little lie about Ofsted training

Have you been raised outside of the UK? I am asking because strangely enough, in the UK, the expression "public school" doesn't mean a state school but a private school. More about it. You are referring to a publicly funded school that is a state school.

I know, it is a rather illogical naming convention and confusing but it is what it is.

Nope, I’m referring to public schools which are different from your average private school. They are the likes of Eton and Harrow. The term has been around since the 18th century to distinguish them from ‘local’ schools. They are fee paying schools that are open to everyone regardless of background status or locality though nowadays (and for over a century) they are for the sons of the ultra rich. Most of the Cabinet of the previous government went to public school.

Sorry, I probably should have read your comment properly. No, I meant that I’m sure even in public schools there are lively children. I’m sure they aren’t all as vile as Johnson.

I’m almost tempted to put you out of your misery but it’s amusing watching you flail around trying to figure this out.

Of course they are. Especially that private schools are providing bursaries, scholarships for many students that come from various backgrounds. This allows around 50 percent of them keep the charity status as a business.

@Newrumpus I am sorry but I wasn't expecting to hear any response from you about anything. 🤦🏼‍♀️

the principle of VAT on education is dangerous, i can see why people don’t object to this first step but what about private nurseries? what about companies that provide clubs in state schools - my kids do some in their primary school. some they are open to children who aren’t at the school, some are just for the kids in that primary. of course state education should be improved which can only happen if this is a priority of government spending and there is a larger pot of money that the government has - i don’t know the best way of achieving this but surely helping employers and small businesses is a good start. making cooperate companies pay a proper share of tax etc

Of course VAT on education is dangerous and also there are a ton of hypocrites on these threads.
I also have 4 high achieving DC who could most likely get top grades in most schools or even at home. It’s no surprise as they don’t have SEN and DH and I come from families with multiple generations of elite uni education. But I am not here to brag, like some others, that I have saved 600k in private school fees by going state. I prefer to have empathy for those who have felt their DC needed private education because their state options were not going to optimise their chances, for whatever reason.

The saddest part of this policy is that it will yet again affect the regions and the most deprived areas the worst. Whilst the Labour politicians in some of those regions are crowing the hardest for it. Yet again letting their own regions down. If I were an MP I would be demanding this policy is scrapped unless some actual real levelling up funding and SEN funding were coming my way.

Hundreds of miles from a state school? I mean…really? Hundreds of miles?