Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

But when I take my kids out of private school and put them in state school, the government will have to find that funding, right? Those who are childless aren't in this equation because they won't get any funding either way.
The fact is, people made a decision on their children's education, pre-VAT so could never have factored in this increase. Not all people who send their kids to private school are wealthy - many have made difficult decisions like only having 1 child as they couldn't afford to put more than one in private education, whereas some have chosen to have 4 or more and can't afford to feed them. This is not a judgement on anyone - I come from a 4 child family, came here as a refugee and couldn't afford anything, but after working hard, forgoing any luxuries, forgoing the nice house next to the outstanding school and a 3rd child, etc, I put my 2 kids into a private school as that was what I believed was best for them. Now, I am having to find them a half decent school to take them in the Middle of a key stage because there is no way I could afford the VAT rise. How is that fair? The VAT they raise from this is a drop in the ocean for the government and the country apparently has no money but they always seem to be able to fund wars - yes, even the illegal, unnecessary wars that then create more displaced refugees like me who are then seen as a burden here, but I digress.

Really wish private school parents would realise that nobody gives a toss if they pull their kids out amd put them into state. Nobody. Fill your boots. Enjoy the extra coinage.

It’s interesting that you think it ‘clearly won’t be’ a loss to the state sector- lots of us think it clearly will be!

@gamerchick“Really wish private school parents would realise that nobody gives a toss if they pull their kids out amd put them into state. Nobody. Fill your boots. Enjoy the extra coinage.”

Well the people at the OBR have to care and check it. If private school parents pull too many DCs out/too many staff lose their jobs, the tax is not revenue raising. It becomes an ideological deterrent.

After Liz Truss, let’s hope they check it. Otherwise why are we wasting money on their existence. They have to do their job, whether anyone likes it or not and they are under scrutiny https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnd0918lz94o

The IFS report is out of date potentially post cost of living etc. and general fee hikes at private schools. Behaviour changes are a much greater risk now potentially. The key promise in the Labour Manifesto above all else was “fully funded and fully costed.” They have already found 20 billion extra to fund, apparently. They cannot do an ideological vanity project. It has to make proper money or it has to go.

“5. Scrutinising tax and welfare policy costing
We scrutinise the Government’s costing of individual tax and welfare spending measures at each Budget. The Government provides us with draft costings in the run-up to each statement and we subject these to detailed scrutiny and challenge.
We then state in Chapter 3 of each Economic and fiscal outlook and in the Treasury’s policy costings document whether we endorse the costings that the Government finally publishes as reasonable central estimates and whether we have used them in our forecasts. We also give each costing an uncertainty rating, based on the data underpinning it, the complexity of the modelling involved and the possible behavioural impact of the policy. This information can be found on our Policy page.”

https://obr.uk/about-the-obr/what-we-do/

So the only reason you are prepared to send your daughter to a State school is because you don't want to pay tax to help the country even though you CAN afford it. Niiice.

I still agree with VAT on school fees

What did you expect people to do? State school is free. If you've a half decent one and no SEN worries it's a no brainer not to pay the extra tax.

Yeah but anyone with a heart would see that it's just not right to introduce something like this already in January, not even at the end of an academic year.

All the bla bla bla about kids' mental health. Yeah, go ahead why don't you just rip those kids out midway through a year or halfway through GCSEs/A-level!

Clearly those private school kids deserve what's coming to them.

What a world we're living in ffs.

I agree with the vat increase. I also agree that applying it in January is more punitive than it needs to be.

I also think this measure is potentially punitive to kids in year 10 and above, but not so much for anyone younger than that, and not really punitive at all to anyone with a kid younger than eleven as the choice for private or state based on cost can be made in exactly the same way as those that can’t currently afford it do.

Whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for the groups above and would have liked to have seen some sort of sense applied for these year groups (although VAT is a blanket tax so I don’t think it can be tapered) this is a relatively short term issue to be concerned with.

I would also add my sympathy to anyone who has made the choice due to a woeful lack of decent SEN provision as this is not of a problem you would have chosen to be part of.

Your post is complete shambles. My child went to a state school. In the year he was there she was bullied, neglected and on back of this she got OCD amongst all the stress and negatives. I lost my job to be able to care and accommodate. In the area I live there is 1 school out of 10 that is so full the waiting list is as long as the Chineese wall. I had to remove my child from the state school and place in private. In just only 10 months I have seen my child flourish and from being underperformed student to receiving award for achievement in education with finishing with exceeded or at standard.
I will never send my child to state school. Another state school also somehow decided and worth behind my back to GP that at age of 4.5yrs old my child should start transgender transformation because my child didn't wear any girls colours like pink!
I am not loaded with dosh and am working 2 jobs to be able to support the private fees as another state school and my child will be dead ! Being suicidal with the last one.
So please spare me the rubbish talk how fair is to apply VAT!

Your school went to the GP who without parental consent agreed they should start gender changing proceedings on your child?

Sorry @StyleBizNews I call bullshit.

@StyleBizNews Another state school also somehow decided and worth behind my back to GP that at age of 4.5yrs old my child should start transgender transformation because my child didn't wear any girls colours like pink!

Pull the other one 😆

Me too. Our school wont administer Calpol without two signatures in blood.

VAT being introduced during an academic year and there being no consideration for children already in the system shows a complete lack of regard to the children who no fault of their own will suffer the consequences.

I don't think this "envy" vote winning scheme will make anywhere near the funds anticipated, it could even backfire entirely and cost more money than it generates.

Reminds me very much of a tax analogy I read years ago.

Tax and beer
Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.　
So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20.” Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody’s share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).　
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.
But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got £1 out of the £20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got £10!”　
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a £1 too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”　
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next week the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important – they didn’t have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

I can't help but think this policy will backfire spectacularly.

Its lucky the U.K. can get away with an education tax without any negative consequences, you don’t see any other country being able to pull it off. Honestly, what a sorry bitter petty mess of a nation we’ve become.

You haven’t been to New Zealand then. Are they a bitter petty mess of a nation too?

Any nation that taxes education to remove educational choices and harm children is backward, it’s illegal in the EU for a good reason. I guess in NZ, the state payment to private schools per pupil and tax rebates for parents helps keeps the choice available. Seriously how can anyone think this is a good idea? It’s just pure and simple spite towards children and will have far reaching consequences outside the middle class children it’s targeting.

The only fair way to do this (if you can call taxing education fair) surely is to apply the vat to new starters? Current parents didn't have that knowledge when enrolling their children.
Or at least allowing children to finish the current academic year?
Unbelievable! 🤯

Yes its deliberately cruel and is clearly ideologicaly driven. It will be dropped the moment it is challenged in ECHR, but will have done a lot of damage to the sector and caused a lot of anxiety for parents and teachers by then.

NZ schools get a small amount of government funding per pupil (£500 - £1000 per year) and parents get tax relief on donations not fees.

It’s still a 15% tax on private education and New Zealand seems to manage. Maybe because New Zealand private school fees aren’t anywhere near the average £18k in the UK?

I really don’t know the ins and outs of NZ private school system, providing choice to pupils with a mixture of state funding, VAT like taxes and tax refunds on donations seems very different to what Labour are proposing. NZ education per pupil is roughly half what the U.K. is, so like for like state funding of Ps in the U.K. under a similar system would equate to 1.2 billion and the proposed VAT raid is forecast to bring in between 1 and 1.5 billion. If net tax savings/receipts in the NZ system top the £4 billion the U.K. system contributes, whilst also providing matching excellent education for pupils then I say let’s have a look at that system

Billionaires leave a country

Is that why we have an influx of foregin investors in UK and half of central London belongs to Russian oligarchs and second part to Chinese?

You can pay tax in Jersey island and live where you want.