Are more of you planning to move your DC from private to state for 6th form now?

[WomensRightsRenegade]

Apologies but just wondering this? My son is going into year 10 at a school he loves, but we are realising that even with a generous bursary, the 20pc VAT will mean it’s impossible for him to stay for 6th form.

I know it’s a transition phase anyway, but he will be very upset to leave as historically not many kids at the school have left then.

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

Yes, parents are engaged by paying for tutoring. What is the point of school if teachers are not providing equally outstanding teaching? The kids are going there just to tick the box as everything depends on tutoring, self study and parents support? They could spare they time and do homeschooling if it is the case. Mediocre teaching yet the grammar schools know how to push and push for rssults
In my opinion grammar kids are particulary vunerable to mental breakdown. They deserve more funding for pastoral care and better teaching

Donations are common case with many schools not only grammar and that is why we observed in recent years many schools turning to academy with volutary contributions. But schools tend to spend these money on roofs etc

Is this perhaps the real politics of envy? I understand it must be nauseating for you.

In order to pass 11+ either the parent is a tutor or the private tutor or atom learning ( tutor) 10 year old is not in a position to understand the scope of material that he she has to learn
There is less turoring in so called county grammars that accept up to 26 perc of local cohort. But def a lot in superselective school.

Btw We are not talking about your singular case, it is not about singular me me me to boast an individual talent. We are talking about trends. Your case doesn't change the nature of things.

Either we are talking about general trends or are getting into infantile envy vs snobs war. I opt for the first one

If you don't see that the grammar of your child is underfunded then you live in your bubble.

Well no, as mine are all out and on the other side (with good jobs and happy lives).

I was referring to the mumsnet brag about their kids not being tutored but managing to be in the top percentage of academics in the country. I don't think a parent that spends time arguing on a chat forum is necessarily going to be the best parent to produce these mythical kids.

Of course they are.

I presume you are talking about yourself spending too much time arguing on a chat forum.

I think those claiming "not tutored" are often selective in their definition of tutoring. So their child didn't have a tutor but may have
-gone to a private prep that specialised in preparation
-gone to learning centres like Explore Learning
-worked through workbooks at home
-had a parent/grandparent who worked with them
-did an absolute ton of "enriching" experiences
-had lots of books and broad discussion at home

I'm afraid I'm sceptical that it's possible to pass super selective grammar school exams where the child literally has no educational input than going to their bog standard local state school. Possibly the odd one or two self taught genius (Matilda type child). It might be more possible at "ordinary grammar" where the intake is broader (top 25% in Bucks, for example).

With grammar we observe self created perpetuated marketing. Parents of the prospective kids think- if it is difficult to get into then it must be a good school. Parents sometimes are not bright enough to see anything beyond that and exam results. And there is so much more to any school.

Even worse are the private schools. It is really hard to avoid to be influenced by amazing marketing and show like Open Day. Private schools employ one ir even sometimes a whole department of marketing staff to work on the school image. All that online independent paid for rankings 🤦🏼‍♀️. Private school tactic is to offer free places for those who they spot as super academically talented. These kids will show in Leavers Destinations under accepted at Oxford. And the rest believes that the magic to get there is in that school 😁One school here offers to local schools a special Saturday sessions for free sending invitations to primary schools to send them top performers to the " free Saturday program for Y5"
There are also kids of the rich donors. Oh those are treated lightly by the teachers. The parents give a lot of 💰 apart from tution fees.

Private, grammar, faith comprehensive - all schools are better or worse. They really vary but most often the truth is well concealed. :)

Nope - I'll happily admit I paid handsomely for my dcs to get a first class education while I waste time on here 🙃

I like how a fundamental disagreement on selective schooling is always deemed to be ‘the politics of envy’.

Maybe some of us have nothing to be envious about.

Irrespective of what I spend my time doing, mine got CATS scores of 141 untutored if that means anything to you. So it would seem you are way off the mark.

Absolutely.

@Sneezeanddessist What does it mean "untutored" ? It is impossible to get to grammar just relying on state school program. You have very narrow definition of the word " tutored". Please read the post above in which redskydarkknight accurately described the matter

Well you can be as sceptical as you like. We are both high achievers and went to top universities so our DC have benefited from genes (do you count these as tutoring too?) but apart from that they went to a normal decent state primary, had no help there with 11+ as it is not allowed in state (although it is in private prep)and did a few bond books on their own at home - my DS asked for them because he saw someone had one at school and loved the NVR puzzles. That does not constitute tutoring.

That does not constitute tutoring.

Tutoring by a parent is still a tutoring. It doesn't need to be paid elsewhere to be considered tutoring. Your child had full blast preparations.
Is your child in county grammar?

And once again, I wasn't involved. He asked me to buy him a book, which I did and left him to it. Not county grammar, super selective grammar.

asked me to buy him a book, which I did and left him to it.

And decided on school, knew the entire scope of program? mock tests? At the age of 10?

Yet it surprises me that a mother of such genius child has challenges to comprehend the basic fact that most kids have very intense preparations to the 11+ entry exams and 1 out of 10 or 15 gets in.

So your DC did benefit from having a workbook to prepare (I think you'll find that was on my list)?

I think we are arguing over terminology. I accept that you did not employ an actual tutor. However, your child did benefit from some support by being provided with a book, which is different from going into the exam having with no preparation at all.

Perhaps instead of saying "no tutoring" we should say "no preparation for the exam"? I still think it would be extremely difficult to go to a super selective exam with no preparation at all.

I'll ignore the condescension. We knew he had a very high IQ because his primary had picked up on it and he was working independently several years ahead in Maths and English from about Year 3 (not at our instigation). When it was time to think about secondary, we visited a range of schools with him but we pretty much let him decide where he liked best. When he was interested in the super selective, we looked atthe school website together and read about the exam. It's all public domain stuff. It was a mix of maths, VR, NVR and an essay I think. None of it was rocket science. There were no mock tests for the exam - the school doesn't release them.

More significantly than getting into the school without any tutoring, was the fact he excelled when he was there and had a great time. He and was always in the top few in the year across all subjects but he also did loads of sport, music and debating etc. The school was the perfect fit for him. I felt sorry for some there who had just been shoe horned into it.

I said no tutoring and that is exactly what he had - no tutoring.

Didn’t say that - see the post below. 🙄

Difference is in how they are taught day to day. In school.

It was a mix of maths, VR, NVR and an essay I think

Which grammar school is that? Just want to explore which grammar school includes NVR in the exam. NVR is in most cases a private school thing.

We knew he had a very high IQ because his primary had picked up on it and he was working independently several years ahead in Maths and English

I still don't understand why a mum of some genius joins the chat as if she wanted to prove that children are not tutored. Do you understand that it doesn't bring anything to the topic? One swallow doesn't make ...Or did you join to boast?

I am sure - I am talking about one school in our experience. Of course it’ll vary. But the LSE doc quoted above it does seem to be a thing at uni.

IME, the difference in how they learn is stark, and can be seen when they swap from one to another. (Private to state grammar, one school!).

There’s a fair bit of diversion in this thread - NVR is certainly part of the Kent 11+ and is not taught at state school. It’s illegal to teach it at state schools.

So state school kids either need to learn it via books and or a tutor. Unlike the private kids who are taught it at school.

Do you mean to be so rude? I am not saying which grammar he went to. Nor am I saying he is a genius, just very bright. I have no need to boast but I don't like when the trope comes out that all grammar school DC are tutored and hothoused by their parents to get in. That is not always the case. In his cohort I knew a number of very bright DC whose parents could never have afforded tutoring. It does bring something to the topic because it calls out statements that are just not true. Are you the thread police?