Is Westminster School the best school on Earth? STATESMOM returns

[statesmom]

I have a lot to say, don't know if anyone remembers the thread. Let me know if you want to hear from me.

It's a shame you don't have more pride in your own achievements OP, perhaps then you wouldn't be so inclined to live vicariously through your son's.

Not quite sure the op’s agenda is, but honestly who cares what she thinks.. it feels like she bored and looking for fight given many of her posts.

How do Eton boys maintain a relationship with a girlfriend (or boyfriend) if they are living in a dorm in a school. I don’t think it’s possible.

I think 'a little sad' applies to a lot about you, OP.

Oh, and the 3.87 GPA? You might not want to look at ivy league grade inflation.

This is exhausting to read 😂

@statesmom - I was born in the US, was educated here from the age of 8, worked back in the US for a while in my 20s.

I have 3 kids. Two are now at Oxbridge having attended the same highly sought-after Westminster-type London Independent school, and one is still there...

To be clear, I love the US work ethic (up to a point, the way companies treat their employees often leaves a lot to be desired) and I have strong admiration for a culture where hard work and ambition are rewarded. In the US there's a lack of the 'don't get ideas above your station' attitude that is still quite entrenched in British culture....

HOWEVER, there's something very misguided in how you are equating (or connecting) money/funding with academic excellence. Just because an Ivy League university has more millions poured into it, it doesn't automatically make it a better university than Cambridge, say. Better facilities possibly. But not necessarily better teaching or a better student experience.

Equally, just because you have spent thousands tutoring your son and hiring consultants and he eventually got into a sought after college, that doesn't mean this environment is right for him. There will be kids there that got in without all that immense tutoring and the further up the ladder one goes within academia, the more apparent it becomes who is truly academic and capable, and who has simply been coached excessively and will eventually reach point where they will find themselves out of their depth.

I hate to break it to you, but at my DC's school, the US university applicants tend to be those from very wealthy families whose parents are quite obsessed with labels/prestige, but wouldn't make the cut for Oxbridge. Of course there are incredible colleges in the US, and I wouldn't for a moment suggest you can buy your way into Harvard...but broadly, going down the Ivy League route is perceived this way.

I find it amazing that the OP cant understand that 'Wall street banker' isn't a measure of the pinnacle of success for everyone.

Rich people have always married rich people. It’s just that the drastically improved educational opportunities for women over the last 60 years mean that the rich girl that was a nurse is now a doctor. Socially nothing different is happening. If anything, education might now make it possible for someone from a poorer background to meet someone from a richer one professionally (although private schooling remains the biggest boost socially).

“Rich people have always married rich people. It’s just that the drastically improved educational opportunities for women over the last 60 years mean that the rich girl that was a nurse is now a doctor.“

And then what? She gives up her job because she is rich and pushes the DC to heights through sheer frustration? Is that what you are saying? I am confused. Is the US tiger mom the stifled highly educated woman who is not working enough because of her husband’s wealth?

This seems incredibly unlikely, given that a pass at English language GCSE is a basic requirement for university courses and employment. Looking briefly at the St Paul’s results I can’t see any evidence at all that English Lit and Lang is dropped.

In the top independent schools, those parents who are obsessed with labels would apply for some ‘Mickey Mouse’ subjects at Oxbridge, as well as at Ivy League universities, simultaneously. Whichever works for them, they will be okay.

No, I’m saying that the OP’s assertion that rich marrying rich is somehow a new thing is totally wrong. Just because a doctor (male obviously) now marries another doctor (female) rather than a nurse (female) does not mean they are marrying a different person. Just that the person they would always have married has a different job.

I know nothing about tiger moms outside literature.

@Arsenal4Ever - not quite sure any Oxbridge subjects could be called ‘mickey mouse’, really. Of course some courses are ‘easier’ than others to get onto, but I was just pointing out to the OP that Ivy League isn’t perceived as the pinnacle of achievement over Oxbridge at many leading schools…

Agree with this completely.

This has got to be a joke... nobody outside America thinks it's the greatest civilisation this world has ever known.

@BodyKeepingScore It's a very Trumpian assertion isn't it? My American friends definitely don't believe this. Although admittedly they're not as wealthy as OP says she is

@BodyKeepingScore and @charitynamechange - this is what I was getting at in my post. The OP seems to equate material wealth with success on every level. It's - dare I say it? - quite an American attitude, but not always particularly healthy one, particularly when it comes to tutoring one's kids into an academic institution that might not be right for them.

I see this increasingly in the UK too. Parents spend an immense amount of money and time tutoring their kids to get them into a brilliant grammar or independent school. For the 11plus, most kids can probably make it through if they've enough money invested into them. But give those kids a few years, and they are the ones that will be struggling in a highly academic school when the ones who did get in largely because of their natural ability will be sailing through.

Not meaning to change the debate here, but this kind of 'money buys everything' attitude will become more prevalent as VAT is introduced on fees as increasingly only the super wealthy will be able to afford private - they'll be a slow brain drain.

But, it's America. They may be richer but that doesn't mean it's a good country to live in. The US is really a 3rd world country masquerading. The political situation is heading towards civil war, the gun situation is out of control and women's rights are in the toilet.

I want my children to live somewhere with equality. Where there is a lower discrepancy between rich and poor. A social democracy. More equality between the sexes in every aspect of public life. Maybe:

Finland
Norway
Sweden
Denmark
Iceland

I just hope Scotland can join that list one day.

All that incredible education and opportunities to end up in investment banking, the biggest of cliches 🤦🏼‍♀️

You say: "However, our world views differ because I also want my DC to value the idea of lending a hand to those members of society who are less privileged."

Why are people so presumptuous?

I would wager 2 things with you if I could:

1. I would bet that my son, over the last 7 years, has spent more time volunteering his time than TWICE what any of your children have spent.
2. I would wager a lot of money that my family has given more to charity than you and your husband have earned in your lifetime.

I'm just stating probable truths. This forum is anonymous so there is no need for me to hide what our family has done.

Where do people get the idea that I think money is so important? I've stated facts about the US and the UK and about career opportunities which, yes, means money as well.

I've always found the people obsessed with money are the people who don't have much of it, and are quietly and not so quietly desirous of it.

If so many respond to you in the way they have OP, don't you ever wonder if there might be an issue with your communication style rather than them all simply being jealous of you?

Genuinely if you’re that wealthy, why are you on mumsnet (not so) stealth bragging? Like I know plenty of rich rich people (clearly I’m not one 🤣) and not one of them would be seen dead on here.

@flowerdress

I hate to break it to you, but at my DC's school, the US university applicants tend to be those from very wealthy families whose parents are quite obsessed with labels/prestige, but wouldn't make the cut for Oxbridge. Of course there are incredible colleges in the US, and I wouldn't for a moment suggest you can buy your way into Harvard...but broadly, going down the Ivy League route is perceived this way.

I wouldn't say it felt that way to me. Most of the people I know whose kids applied to the US also applied to the UK, since UK applications are easy. I know in our case the decisions, in the end, came down to how definite the child was about what they wanted to do and how well they could cope with the less structured British system. My very decided and organised child chose Oxbridge, my less decided children chose US partly because of the broader curriculum. My child who chose the ivy over Oxbridge, I think would have floundered with the tutorial system and lack of structure.

But, again, by far the best experience of the three was the small liberal arts college.

Yes she came back to say she’d missed the English and French scores at king’s college Wimbledon (no doubt for st Paul’s too).

Absolutely every boy at Kings Wimbledon does English, English lit, and french. These are NOT options.

In fact, most of the kings Wimbledon boys do French a year early. Just checked the 2023 gcse results for kings and almost all of them got a 9 in French (despite doing it early).

Kings Wimbledon was the top boys school for gcse results. Westminster was several notches below. So no, it’s not the best school if we are looking at gcse league tables. But still, splitting hairs since ultimately the schools are pretty similar!

Please stop feeding the op's nonsense... truly awful and smug.

@Nottodaythankyou123

Like I know plenty of rich rich people (clearly I’m not one 🤣) and not one of them would be seen dead on here.

Or maybe they just wouldn't admit it IRL😂

In all seriousness, particularly when you're an expat and you live in a certain bubble, a place like mumsnet can be incredibly enlightening about the realities of your new home outside that bubble. I credit being on here with teaching me a lot about the UK that was very different from our London/work in the city/private school experience, which has been very valuable to me.