Grammar school with dyslexia

[kezzykicks]

My ds is in year 4 so am starting to look ahead at possible secondaries.

He has said he wants to go to the local grammar (a couple of friends' brothers go) and he is academic and very interested in leaning, I think it would be a really good fit for him if he was accepted.

He does have dyslexia, he has a diagnosis and he finds some things trickier than others, eg, his spelling is awful and when he was diagnosed he was identified as having some issues with processing and needing extra thinking time.

He has developed strategies to deal with it and is exceeding at school but finds it tiring. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of a dyslexic child in grammar - were any provisions offered for the 11+ exam and has the child coped with the demands of the school? Thanks

In my opinion, state schools tend to be brilliant for the two extremes. The ones with a lot of need and the ones who are very bright. It's likely if he does pass the 11+ (I don't know any that give extra time, but check your grammar) they will probably be at the lower end of ability, just because of slower processing. Grammars just tend to fly through things. I personally would try it, just because in that scenario he's likely to get more support than he would in a comp. The behaviour tends to be a lot better and passing the 11+ may be very good for his confidence.
Equally, he may well end up failing and that crushing him.
It's a tricky question as grammars are all very different but all in all I'd try it if he's actually bright!

I’d add - do your due diligence… find out from the grammar SEN team what they can offer, and how flexible they are prepared to be. I have had 2 with dyslexia at grammar school - the biggest things have been how many languages are compulsory at gcse (2 at the grammar my dc went to - and one of them found languages very very difficult) and how many gcses do the students have to do (at dc’s grammar, it is 11 gcses and they do not let students reduce down to 10 or 9). That for me has caused the biggest problems, putting so much pressure on to my dyslexic dc, in terms of quantity of homework, revision, and now during actual gcses, it ends up being 25+ individual exams. So it is every day, sometimes two in one day. That is a huge amount of pressure for someone with SEN. I have a 3rd dc - who is going to a grammar school in September - but it is a different grammar school (only 1 language, 10 (or 9) gcses….)

Thank you so much both. There's a lot to think about but that's really helpful. I have looked on the school's website and they only seem to offer extra provisions for the exam like a separate room, definitely not extra time. I think we will go and view it and speak to the Senco. That's really useful.

Extra time for the 11plus? I would be surprised if they didn’t accommodate additional needs like that… the three grammar boroughs near us all do…

Okay thanks, I will check this

We've only got 3 super selectives in our area and none give extra time, even with an EP report. It's bizarre and I'm always surprised they've got away with it.
Your point about compulsory GCSEs is very good btw. This is also the case at comps OP! My DD is in a comp and has an EHCP for severe dyslexia. It's only due to that, that she was able to drop the compulsory lang and RE/Citizenship GCSEs. She has 1:1 maths and eng in those periods but she's the only one in her year. Lots of her friends are struggling with the 10 GCSEs her school makes compulsory.

I was surprised by the lack of extra time. I have a friend with a child at the grammar school who is currently doing GCSEs and gets 50% extra time - he has dyslexia and asd. However he didn't get it for the entrance but now he is there he gets the most I have ever heard!

It's INCREDIBLY difficult to get 50% extra time.
However this kind of proves my point about SEN in grammar schools. In some schools it can be woeful as they're not experienced with SEN and have little funding, but in other schools it's amazing as they're not overwhelmed with need so can give a lot of support to kids like your son who would otherwise get next to nothing in a comp, as he's bright and managing.
It's v important to research the particular school as they're all so different.

The thing is, needing extra thinking time is fine in exams as it is covered by extra time. But how will that work out in class with a bunch of fast thinking && academic peers? I'd think hard whether he would keep up with faster paced teaching. Plus the spelling, and how would that impact possibly compulsory MFLs?

@TeenDivided yes that's why I'm only considering it so far. He has developed strategies and is top of his class despite his difficulties but am guessing these will become less effective as he gets older. Another part of me is thinking it might be the right environment for him to thrive though.

I suspect it depends on what type of grammar school it is. The super selective ones near us (one of the grammar boroughs) cream off probably the top 5 per cent of highest performing children, whereas the ‘standard’ grammars take maybe the top 25 per cent. So a ‘standard’ grammar school would be a much more diverse environment, with a bunch of children achieving well and a bunch of children achieving less well than the higher performing ones. The thing is with dyslexia that a dyslexic child passing a selection test will likely have a very very spiky profile, so extremely good in some areas, but struggling in others, so they may well be the best in their class in some subjects. And also the slowest in some subjects. But SEN staff (and the parents) should advocate with the class teachers so that the dyslexic student is praised for doing so well, even though they may have written less, or have spelling mistakes. Yes - languages can be problematic (especially Spanish, lots of confusing i and e things going on). German can be good for dyslexic students - and Latin can also actually support a more thorough understanding of how words are built up (one of my dyslexic dcs has gained a lot from doing latin)..

Schools have previously been advised about need to provide adjustments - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-54100278#:~:text=It%20comes%20after%20a%20legal,putting%20the%20adjustments%20in%20place.

@Stoufer yes I do think it's a shame that children who have spiky profiles like that are missing out on a chance of entry due to the focus on performing well under timed conditions when they are ahead elsewhere.

I think there has been a real row back on grammars giving extra time for the 11+ exam.

I've heard multiple stories from school support staff/Sencos about affluent parents paying for private dyslexia assessments/diagnosis to try to get extra time and game the system.

My son has ADHD and would have traditionally benefited from extra time, but it's only given in extreme cases now. I've seen it spelt out in detail on an access arrangement form 'the test is multiple choice so no extra time is given if your child gets extra time for writing at school' as an example.

It's not an exact science, so we will just have to see how we get on without that adjustment.

Regarding your son OP, I would want to be speaking to Senco at open evening to understand how they support dyslexic children in their grammar school and if that gives you confidence. Having had a meeting with a Senco in one of our target grammar schools, she said it was the second most common diagnosis after autism, so he wouldn't be the only one. Note this wasn't a super selective.

DS has dyslexia but was not diagnosed until this year in year 10. He passed the 11+ obviously with no extra time and I think the dyslexia helped with verbal reasoning as he was really good at it!

The school aren’t especially helpful, although he’s in a “special” English class with more support and less children which he wouldn’t get in a comprehensive school.

He’s on track for a 7 in English, which is great for him!

I teach in a grammar school and have supervised for the 11+ many times over the last 15 years. A small number of children do get extra time with ours and sit them in a different room.

We also have a number of students who get extra time because of additional needs in their GCSE and A level exams. As class teachers, we have to be able to demonstrate the benefit to the student of this extra time, by allowing them to use it in class assessments, but they change the colour of their pen or their font if typing during that time, so we can see how many more marks they have gained in that time.

Finally, I teach a delightful young chap with dyslexia and dyspraxia there. He has instrumental lessons with me as well as his class lessons, so I have got to know him quite well. He really has to work hard to keep up, but he is very bright. The SENCO has added various things to this kid's school laptop which help him access materials and is always approachable with ideas for helping.

I looked recently at the data from 1 year of the local grammar school. 1 exclusion, 3 suspensions.

@Persimonne72 I think you've quoted the wrong person? My post doesn't really say anything about suspensions? I'm slightly confused lol.

It was with regards to behaviour being better.

And what was your point based on those stats?

That grammar schools may have only slightly better behaviour as compared to comprehensives. They have all sorts of behavioural issues that are not as frequent in comprehensive schools. I can give you examples if you wish

You need to @ me if you want me to see your replies.

I never said grammar schools don't have any behaviour issues. I also said that grammar schools can be very different from each other, just like comps. 1 px and 3 suspensions is low atm though so I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove?

You need to @ me if you want me to see your replies.
sorry, forgot about it. Also, I didn't know if you want to reply at all.

1 px and 3 suspensions is low atm though so I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove?

I would not say it is low. It is a lot given the way they approach suspensions and exclusion .Remember, children are similar in every school at that age and sriven by hormones. Grammar schools, in particular, create unique environments where arrogance ( I am the brightest 😅) and extreme competitiveness can lead to physical altercations especially among boys. Additionally, like private schools, grammar schools often downplay or conceal problems to maintain their reputation and attract top students, making suspension or exclusion a rare recourse.
I am in favor of debunking myths about grammar schools. Yes, they progress quickly through the curriculum, and pastoral care is limited. These schools are best suited for very emotionally resilient children who can handle significant amounts of self-study. Most super-selective grammar schools are not nurturing or focused on addressing SEN needs. In my opinion, if it is not a county grammar school, I would not recommend sending a child with dyslexia, as they might struggle more in that environment.

I've taught in grammar schools, and there are fewer students with SEN, and so the ones that are there have far more individual input and support. I would definitely apply to grammar - it is easy to move out of a grammar if it doesn't suit you, but very hard to move in later

Make an appointment with the SEN people at the grammar school and at wherever he would go otherwise. Find out why they say they offer. Start from there....