Grammar school with dyslexia

[kezzykicks]

My ds is in year 4 so am starting to look ahead at possible secondaries.

He has said he wants to go to the local grammar (a couple of friends' brothers go) and he is academic and very interested in leaning, I think it would be a really good fit for him if he was accepted.

He does have dyslexia, he has a diagnosis and he finds some things trickier than others, eg, his spelling is awful and when he was diagnosed he was identified as having some issues with processing and needing extra thinking time.

He has developed strategies to deal with it and is exceeding at school but finds it tiring. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of a dyslexic child in grammar - were any provisions offered for the 11+ exam and has the child coped with the demands of the school? Thanks

I find your first two paragraphs somewhat irrelevant to what I said. You expect that the child with dyslexia will get in and then everybody will bend to focus on her in particular so she does well? Are we talking about some country grammar? Surely not superselective school.

If you really attended superselective grammar you should be aware that grammar schools are not slowing down pace for somebody with dyslexia or dyscalculia. Grammar schools want to maintain their grades. A lot of effort is done individually at home and with parents.

SEN budget is not given in the same amount to every state school as " resources". but it is anually proposed by each school basing on the number of kids on the SEN register ( and funds for each EHCP) and lum sum basing for those on SEN monitoring. The size of the SEN department also depends on the needs and not something given equally to all schools.

Nobody said anything about expecting schools to "bend to focus on [our children] in particular so they do well".

Personally, I just want the school to understand 2E/DME. They don't need to "bend" to support my child unfairly or to the detriment of others or the pace of everyone’s learning. Let them use a laptop, teach them how to use the tools it gives them effectively, make audio versions of textbooks available (via RNIB bookshare), make some low cost tweaks like emailed worksheets/class notes/homework, don't humiliate them about their spelling, say the occasional word of encouragement that shows them you "get it" - yes, but I don't think that's bending or focusing on my child over others. First though, you have to recognise there is a disability that still needs supporting even though the child can compensate through their strengths up to a point that's not behind age averages.

It's not even about "doing well" if you mean that in terms of grades, it's about addressing some of the frustration and the emotional toll - higher grades are the by-product.

Why would you need to slow down pace? You seem to think that children with dyslexia have lower intelligence?

My DH is also very dyslexic - never got lower than an A* in any exam and has an MA from Oxford. He went to a very selective private school and got help to enable him to achieve those grades.

DD has been working with a university department outside school since she was 13, and they have had no problems putting in help and adjustments to enable her to access the course and achieve her potential - probably because they have very few SEN students to focus on and so they have the time and resources to spare.

Yet her comp have only been able to offer mental health support (that she doesn't require) as they are completely overwhelmed with the huge number of children requiring support. As she's on track for good grades - just not her 9/8 targets - she's not a priority.

I have no idea about normal grammars, as mine was a super-selective, but certainly the dyslexics there were offered extra help to get them the top grades.

Ah yes, mental health support made available,but not actual practical support with the underlying problems - sounds depressingly familiar.

DS's dyslexic difficulties impact his memorisation/rapid recall of maths facts so the Year 4 times tables test was a rough time. School offered pull out ELSA intervention to support his self esteem as a result of having "trouble with maths". It would have been quicker and much cheaper simply to let him use a times tables square in lessons and for year 6 SATS - he's learnt to write one out quickly and use it at home - to continue to access the more interesting work rather than beasting him through futile extra TTRS practice; and for the test, allow the adjustment of pausing the multiplication test in between questions to compose himself and so be able to do his best. But times tables squares aren't consistent with their maths policy and they didn't feel his results were bad enough to warrant a pause button.

He's good at maths (just a poor specimen of a human calculator) and finds the pace of lessons maddeningly slow and repetitious in maths and across the board.

I guess people assume pace will need to be slower because of the "slow processing" which is often present with dyslexia/ADHD - as opposed to giving support and adjustments so they can keep up with the class pace and work to their strengths?

I guess people assume pace will need to be slower because of the "slow processing" which is often present with dyslexia/ADHD - as opposed to giving support and adjustments so they can keep up with the class pace and work to their strengths?

Totally agree. DD has no problems whatsoever with processing - her issues are with working memory and in translating phonics. Can't spell at all and reading is a huge effort.

Other than providing tech, I haven't found much available in the way of help. Outside GCSE/A level there is far more flexibility - assessments done in form of a video presentation rather than an essay etc.

You seem to think that children with dyslexia have lower intelligence?

not at all. Please stop those nonsense suggestions. You are talking to an intelligent and highly educated woman and not a daft person who doesn't understand what dyslexia is.
There is a reason why I said it
I understood that you suggest here:

If you have a child who is capable of a 9, but scoring 7, and a whole load of children capable of scoring a 5 but currently getting a 3 and very limited resources, where are you going to spend your time and effort?

that they will have more time and resource to work with her in grammar. And that is why I wrote: You expect that the child with dyslexia will get in and then everybody will bend to focus on her in particular so she does well?

Intelligence is not everything. There are many people who are intelligent but have not completed a university degree for various reasons

I have no idea about normal grammar, as mine was a super-selective, but certainly the dyslexics there were offered extra help to get them the top grades.

Depends what is the type of dyslexia. If it is swapping letters etc it is something a person is born with as with any type of dyslexia and it is hard to improve it. I have a friend who has PhD in psychology, works in the army and has dyslexia. She was diagnosed early and went through her entire education and career with the diagnose report from the doctor and a spell checker. She is swapping letters and she tried all types of improvement techniques. Nothing works. I told her to accept herself as she is and her nature especially that she accomplished so much

But going back to the original point, we are talking here about something specific- grammar schools. You implied that grammar schools will be better than other state schools in addressing a dyslexic child needs.

I believe that the best would be the school that has special provisions for a dyslexia. Dedicated groups,program to improve or accommodate.
These are often in large comprehensive schools. Worth checking before applying. Grammar schools have usually less SEN pupils and therefore not that many kids with dyslexia.

Can you post a link to a comprehensive school with a specialist dyslexia unit or programme please?

How much "choice" do you think there is for parents? I looked at 27 secondary schools for DD - and we did have choice as she was an ideal candidate for aptitude places so we could go out of area. Only one school had specialist help for dyslexia and that was a boarding Public School and £40k a year. None of the state options had anything focused on dyslexia.

You also seem to know very little about dyslexia if you think it's about "swapping letters round".

@Cockerdileteef dd found the writing out of the tables square helped her a lot too. We have been trying a reader for the longer questions in maths which has helped, as for dd seeing a long question was enough to throw her off her game. She consistently gets over 90% in skills tests, so it's not about ability as you say. With someone else reading the questions out she can do them relatively easily. I thought it might be worth mentioning.

I am dreading dd doing A levels at the grammar (not a super selective although weirdly a lot of parents of kids there seem to say it is...) as I say, you can see online their results and number of SEN students for the last 3 years which is on average 2 or 3 out of 180 in a year. It is really not set up for thinking outside the box in regards to dynamic teaching.

Mine was given extra time for the transfer test and all tests going forward, offered a reduced time table, shares a classroom assistant and offered the option to drop a language/skip games and spend longer on language. She doesn't have a statement, they were just really accommodating.

@Smokealarmtwister which type of grammar and when did they enter? Ours would be non selective boys that takes girls for 6th form as they do the best STEM. I'm nervous about dd joining later on but she will hopefully be getting GCSE A/A* in all 4 A level subjects she wants to take, but as I say with the odd helpful learning tools when teachers notice she isn't getting top marks and work with her to resolve why...which she may well be able to for herself by then I suppose. It does seem odd that dyslexics are often pushed out of selective systems like grammars at 11+ when such simple work-arounds can give the schools top achievers.

When I say non-selective, obviously it is a grammar so selective, but not super selective.

Interestingly the best support we have found so far is from a superselective grammar so you just can't tell based on the type of school. It could be that the grammar takes the sink or swim approach or they might take the approach that they can add value by giving more support.

Can you post a link to a comprehensive school with a specialist dyslexia unit

There is a whole list in a specially dedicated register created for that reason called CRESTED
Some state schools have specialisted unit for high functioning ASD, some dyslexia etc.
Nearby me Orlean Park has special group for kids with dyslexia

You also seem to know very little about dyslexia if you think it's about "swapping letters round"
Do you often twist fact to humiliate people? Did you find anywhere that I said that this is the only dyslexia that exists? I wrote clearly " It depends on the type of dyslexia".
Yes, dyslexia may be also inability to read or comprehend what somebody written. No idea why I waste time to talk to you EOT

It's a highly performing grammar that would be hard enough to get into - probably one of the hardest. She went into first year. But I did read the Ofsted report and knew they were going to be good, and visited with her when she was nine to discuss what might be available.

And I couldn't agree more, the way children with dyslexia are treated in the transfer test is brutal. They are still dyslexic if you leave them with that paper for an extra ten minutes. It's so unjust.

Haven’t read the full thread , sorry, but I know several dyslexic children who were given extra time for 11+ last year. Some passed, some didn’t. I think it’s something you need to specifically ask for

Thanks for sharing this.

I looked up Orleans Park out of curiosity (it's nowhere near us). That sort of dyslexia provision isn't for the children being discussed on this thread so unfortunately very wide of the mark as a suggestion. Orleans Park has nearly 1400 pupils and 12 places in the specialist unit, entry to which is on referral by the LEA and requires an EHCP for dyslexia in combination with other complex needs. Our children on this thread would come nowhere close to those entry criteria - in my experience they're often lucky to even be allowed on the SEN register if they're not "behind" age averages - and the specialist unit isn't directed to their needs. It's for children with complex needs who are significantly behind or struggling to access the curriculum. Orleans Park may or may not understand DME/2E kids ie with both SEN and High Learning Potential, and may or may not support their needs well in the classroom but the existence of a specialist unit for a fraction of the school's dyslexic pupils, says nothing one way or the other on that.

The only school I've found which expressly affirms in its policies that it is possible to have SEN and Higher Learning Potential, and directs staff about identification and support, is in the next county and is a grammar.

Just had a look on the CRESTED website.

Not a single state school listed in our county, nor any of the neighbouring ones.

Orleans Park looks great... if you live in Twickenham, have an EHCP (good luck with that if you are dyslexic and not failing) and are allocated one of their 12 places by the LA.

@Cockerdileteef

The Orlean Park is not only supporting EHCP kids with dyslexia but has special program for all sorts of dyslexia. As it is one of the top nonselective state schools in the country ( as per results ranking) it is prepared to accommodate high performing dyslectic kids too. How do I know? I had an appeal meeting with them during which one of the panel members asked about SEN provision and received detailed answer so did I

Well most of the grammar schools also have catchment. Most of state schoold do. Minority doesn't. But from my experience these here where I live are not TLC. Maybe nationwide are different too.

Good to hear there are schools out there providing a high standard of support for dyslexic pupils across the ability range. From its website it does look a fab school to attend.
Lucky Twickenham!

We have few schools like that here in Richmond Borough.