Staff turnover in private schools

[BTsrule]

DS is at a private school. There seems to be a high level of staff turnover - maybe a quarter of the teachers that teach his year group are leaving. I am not sure if this is normal as people no longer want to have ‘jobs for life’ and need to move around to progress or if the turnover is signalling an issue. The head says it’s normal but he would of course.

Does anyone with kids at private school have a view on this? Is this level of turnover normal? Is it normal in the state sector? He is in y10 so not a good time to move him.

In my experience it's the good teachers that move on and the weaker ones who aren't confident about getting a job elsewhere who stay.

Over a third of private schools are no longer in TPS. Many aren't fully out yet but are in discussions about it. These discussions alone will prompt people to leave as they are generally just a tick box exercise to do before the school exits formally.

My pay and conditions are better in state school.

Private school kids were in 8-3:50. I had to do 3 duties a week till 4:30 + a staff meeting and one weekend a month. We had to eat lunch with the kids and had 20 mins break twice a day, which obviously was spent prepping.

State school, 8:45-3:15. All kids are gone by 3:20. Yeah there are 7 more kids in my class but I can mark all their stuff in that extra half an hour I get daily. I do one break duty a week and the kids have a full hour for lunch and so do I.

In my opinion, the teaching is far superior in the stat schools I've been at. We have to be up to date and on it, we can't just manage our slightly tricky children and we are held accountable. The only advantage private had was that the behaviour of the kids and the slightly smaller classes made the actual teaching a tiny bit easier.

I wouldn't ever move back to private.

Mine attended two different private schools.
The first had a high level of staff turnover but only after a truly crap headmaster joined.
The other didn’t. I don’t remember any leaving except for one to retire.

Including free accommodation if there’s boarding.

I worked in an independent school at the end of my career which was partof a wealthy foundation - my DD works there now. It was such a contrast to the state schools I had previously worked in. More money, smaller classes, better behaviour, free lunches, tea, coffee, fruit and biscuits, they even had a bar which was open on Friday afternoons, lighter timetable, 2/3 off the fees for your own children, tps. Obviously not the case in many less well endowed private schools. The school had its own wine cellar and huge property portfolio it was often said even if no one paid fees they’d still be wealthy. The staff turnover was low and nothing like the turnover in the state school I worked at. I must say I loved working there, and I realise the inequalities are appalling but that’s always been the case

Surely patches conditions are better than at state schools. Higher pay. Smaller classes, longer holidays.

To echo a pp, have a lot of teachers in my extended family & private schools leaving the TPS is a big issue for them.

I would say that's a bad sign. My dd was in a selective girls school and ds was in a state grammar. We were really pleased with both, they were excellent schools and neither had more than 1 or 2 teachers leave a year every year they were there (ds left the year before last and dd two years before that, so I don't know if things have changed - except i do follow ds' old school on Twitter and so far they've only advertised one job for September). I assume it was because they were great places to work, and on the flip side this made the schools very efficient, because everyone knew what they were doing, the teachers knew the kids very well etc.

@Dollenganger333l

Two friends who worked at indies have switched to state in the past year for more money and due to the pension scheme, in addition for one of them they had only stayed so long because of the 50% staff discount on fees, their dc is now at university. Apparently the state schools are not any more stressful, though it's different, one friend was partly fed up with parents telling her how to do her job and demanding better marks for their mediocre dc who weren't putting effort in, in the state school she moved to her biggest issue is persistent absenteeism in lower sets.

It depends massively on what "echelon" of independent school you are talking about, to sound a bit crass. DH has always worked in well known boarding schools, similar to the one @gerispringer describes. His current pension isn't nearly as good as TPS, but pay is far higher and he has longer holidays, free meals, smaller classes, large fee discount, etc. Plus there is the free staff accommodation in many cases, which is worth tens of thousands per year. Of course there are many small schools that are struggling, which don't have large endowments and generous donors.

To go back to the OP, staff turnover has generally been on lower to average side in DH's workplaces. However at his last two schools there have been periods of high turnover- in both cases I'd say it was due to a shit SLT and poor management.

Leaving aside the issue of the TPS - obviously any organisation that opts out of a (very) generous pension for staff is going to be bad news for those that work there - it seems like there is a bit of anti-private sentiment feeding into some of the opinions on here.

The original question was about turnover and any workplace that has people constantly leaving has a problem - that can be an issue in state schools or private schools. But it's no secret the state sector has a massive shortage of teachers, and a lot of state schools are woefully underfunded. Private schools have a lot more money coming in, therefore, unless they are very, very badly run, they won't face the same sort of challenges - and therefore staff turnover isn't likely to be as much of an issue.

Think about it - if you were teaching A-level students and absolutely passionate about your subject, what are you going to opt for? A higher salary, smaller classes, longer holidays (where you might have the time to write a book, for example), and more resources/facilities to easily teach, versus a lower paid and more challenging alternative where you have less free time?!

It's not FAIR, but unfortunately money talks to an extent, particularly in London where living costs are so high.

The original question was about turnover and any workplace that has people constantly leaving has a problem - that can be an issue in state schools or private schools

But the OP was asking about private schools?

@Pollipops1 - yes, meant to follow the point about staff constantly leaving after short periods being a red flag with a really obvious point - if staff are happy they tend not to leave!

But to suggest that it's an issue that's somehow unique to private schools - as some of the posters on here seem to want to imply - is just quite silly. We all know the state sector is really struggling right now thanks to years of this terrible government.

I don’t think anyone would argue that there aren’t problems in state schools but the OP was specifically asking about private 🤷🏻‍♀️

Think about it - if you were teaching A-level students and absolutely passionate about your subject, what are you going to opt for? A higher salary, smaller classes, longer holidays (where you might have the time to write a book, for example), and more resources/facilities to easily teach, versus a lower paid and more challenging alternative where you have less free time?!

@sparklewhite you are talking as if private schools have higher salaries, smaller classes, longer holidays, more resources..... but those of us who have taught in both are saying that they often do not. Often it is exactly the other way around

You can have a lot less spent per child in a private school that in a state school - look at the iGCSEs - cost less than half the price to teach - that is why private schools teach them, even though state schools don't.

Just because the money is coming from the parents rather than the state does not mean there is more of it available for education.

Genuinely curious - why do IGCSEs cost half the price to teach? We do teach IGCSE at my school, which was my decision, but that wasn't the reason, so I'd love to know more about this!

All 3 of the private schools I have taught in have been like that though. Much smaller classes, much better salary, longer holidays, higher budgets for resources etc, great perks...

I know not all offer this, but a massive amount do!

IGCSEs are International GCSEs. They are designed to be taught anywhere in the world, in any circumstances, with no resources at all. You can do it with a teacher talking and a pen and paper, in a refugee camp, in a war zone, in a secret underground school, in the middle of the desert, without electricity, without a photocopier, without the internet, etc.

That might not be how they are taught in wealthy countries like ours, but everything extra is optional.

Whereas GCSEs require lots of resources, science experiments, history trips, media clips, work sheets, technology, tools, materials, food, internet access, etc.

iGCSEs are cheaper to teach, and also a bit easier, which is why private schools teach them, and state schools are not allowed to!

Agree. When I hear parents saying they moved their child from state to private for SEN it makes me feel very uncomfortable. The state is in no way perfect but most state schools deal with, genuine, SEN far more successfully than privates (who certainly talk the talk very well).

@sparklewhite The issues facing private schools are exactly why they're experiencing higher turnover than they may have in previous years.
I'm not talking about Eton here but people do need to realise not all privates are equal. It is an undeniable truth that pay, conditions and training are worse in most private schools. Saying that's not true because the elite schools aren't like that, is like saying nothing is wrong in state schools because henrietta Barnett gets brilliant results.

@Lazytiger I actually think the private sector has created a perfect storm for themselves in this area. They need bums on seats and desperate parents of Sen kids are tricked into thinking a small class will solve all issues (it doesn't, can make things worse actually). They now have a lot of Sen kids without the training or ability to buy into additional LA support. A lot of the time taught by teachers who are used to compliant kids.

It seems to be linked to headmaster - my dd’s went from really low turnover school, to really high after the headmaster changed. New headmaster has implemented lots of changes which aren’t popular with staff, pupils or parents.

@Foxesandsquirrels - ‘ It is an undeniable truth that pay, conditions and training are worse in most private schools.’ Can you give us any stats that actually back this up?

If private teachers were lower paid, working in less favourable conditions and receiving lesser training, then why would any of them want to work in the private sector in the first place, and why is it state schools (not private) that face such big teacher shortages?

If you’re basing this on the tps issue - of course anyone could see why a teacher having that taken away might opt to go to a workplace that offers it - because it’s an enormously valuable pension! But it’s only roughly a third of privates that have opted out, which means two thirds of private schools still have it…

@afraidand - I’ve never heard of IGCSES and they’re not taught at my kids’ school or any comparable London indies, as far as I know. In my experience many parents feel it’s worth paying for the broader subject offering that is taught in most privates - not many state schools offer history of art or classics a-levels, for example…

Just to say also - I’m not enormously pro-private, as my posts might suggest 😂 There’s masses that’s wrong with the entire education system in the UK…and the private/state polarity is problematic. But some of these posts just seem like wildly inaccurate opinion, rather than fact.