Staff turnover in private schools

[BTsrule]

DS is at a private school. There seems to be a high level of staff turnover - maybe a quarter of the teachers that teach his year group are leaving. I am not sure if this is normal as people no longer want to have ‘jobs for life’ and need to move around to progress or if the turnover is signalling an issue. The head says it’s normal but he would of course.

Does anyone with kids at private school have a view on this? Is this level of turnover normal? Is it normal in the state sector? He is in y10 so not a good time to move him.

Yes staff churn is high in my DC’s private. Teachers leaving mid-term. Three classes merged into two as they did t find a science teacher. The school is pretty shit TBH and we are withdrawing DC.

Lots of private schools are ditching TPS, and teachers are voting with their feet.

Turnover is not necessarily a bad thing. Better to consider who is leaving the school. Schools where nobody ever leaves grow stagnant.

Wages are often lower than state and many schools have opted out of tps

Also massive recruitment issues, we need 2 maths teachers and haven’t had a single applicant

A quarter of staff leaving is huge. But it's not to do with private sector specifically (although TPS plays a part). Staff turnover is huge in state schools too. My private school actually has a very LOW staff turnover at the moment.

My kids at a London private - not a stealth boast but it’s one of the ones that’s highly sought after with lots of competition for places. Staff turner is low - a lot of teachers have been there 10plus years and several for 20 years or more.

The salaries are high for teaching and they are on the TPS….

Just to clarify, TPS is the teachers pension scheme. It's a brilliant pension scheme that teachers within the state sector are automatically entitled to. Financially it is worth a lot per year.

Many private schools have pulled out from it and it represents a real loss of earnings. I moved from the private sector to the state sector when my private school left 4 years ago.

My daughter's private school has very low turnover, most of the staff have been there 20+ years and will never leave. It's because behaviour is so good there. However, it does mean a lack of innovation and some of the curriculum and teaching style feels very dated. I was relieved when a couple of new teachers were hired this year and they overhauled English and some other subjects. Some movement is a positive thing and keeps things fresh. The crisis in teacher recruitment and retention, however, is out of control and a high turnover is a symptom of that.

High turnover can also be a sign of a shit SLT and little support

Not where I work but lots of independent schools having to leave TPS might be a factor.

If I worked in an independent school it would be what's happening with the pension. Think that's outrageous

In my school, big , city centre academic secondary independent school we have v low staff turnover. I’m on my 19th year and there are lots of people who have been there longer than me. One teacher has been there since 1970s! Some turnover is healthy but high turnover is a sign of poor management.

This is just not true! Training isn’t specific to state/independent, pay is generally same as state or better and many indies have longer holidays/free lunches/ more curriculum independence/smaller classes/better behaviour. I’ve taught in both. Obviously there are some small independent schools that may not be great but a decent HMC school is not like this. I’m 57 and still happily teaching full time and I suspect this would not be the case if I’d stayed in the state system.

But it is true that many independent schools have far worse pay and conditions for their staff that state schools. Your maybe not, but many do.

I am in a state school where many staff have been for decades, we have new staff too, but a lot of happy staff stay a long time.

@Notellinganyone I suspect you staying in teaching would depend on the state school you were in. Just as it depends on the private you're in.

@afraidand exactly.

@Foxesandsquirrels and @afraidand - where are you getting your evidence from that ‘pay and conditions’ are worse in private over the state sector?

Thus makes zero sense to me. State is chronically under funded at the moment, so teachers are far more stressed and over-worked. Private teachers have longer holidays and higher salaries - I can’t speak for every school obviously, but I know what teachers in our private earn and it’s FAR more than in the state sector. They are also on the TPS scheme. I’m aware some privates are pulling out of that but by no means all…

I moved from independent to state a couple of years ago and have better pay and conditions.

Schools vary a lot and within sectors as well as between them.

Hard to generalise. So much depends on the management.

What do you mean where am I getting my evidence from? I am a teacher. I have worked in both sectors, many of my colleagues have worked in both sectors. Lots of things have been worse in private schools I have worked at, compared to state - pay and conditions of teachers is one of them, hours of teachers is another, maximum class size is another.

I have worked in private schools so short staffed that state schools would have been sending students home, whereas private schools have just amalgamated classes into bigger and bigger groups, literally until they are spilling out of the door of the hall because they can't all fit in. All with one teacher. In a state school we would have sent a year group home before reaching that point

Honestly I don't know what fairytale land you live in but it sounds like you've just been lucky. Pay and conditions refers to contracts. Not necessarily workload etc. The protections you have. No one is saying the situation in the state sector isn't dire, and no one is saying private schools all have awful pay and conditions. However, it's disingenuous to say working in a private is definitely better. Training may be available but it's nothing compared to the state sector. The protection state school contracts give you, you won't find that in a private school, especially not for profit ones, which most are now. It's becoming more and more rare for a school to be a charity, most are for profit that have investors expecting dividends. Honestly I'm happy you've not had that experience but lots of private schools are on skeleton staff, many of whom aren't qualified. They have a lot of pressure from management to keep bums on seats to ensure money keeps coming. This makes resolving difficulties with students and parents tricky.
Again I'm happy you've not experienced it, and I'm sure there's some amazing private schools, just as there are state schools, but its not genuine to say working in a private school has better pay and conditions, as that's just not true.

I'm not even going to go into SEN in the private sector. Esp private SEN schools. What they're getting away with is criminal.

100% this

One of my siblings taught in a well-known boarding school. It was brutal - tbf he was early career and lived in, but he had a huge teaching load plus weekend and evening sports coaching, prep supervision, emergency cover and tutoring, plus 'on call' overnight duties. Pay looked OK on paper but the actual hourly rate was derisory, even taking into account the staff flat. He lasted a year before changing career completely, which I think is not an uncommon pattern.