To move school mid Y7 when she is doing great?

[SimonBolivar]

Hello
my daughter has settled really well in a local comp. She was selected for the scholars program and may or may not be gifted but is super bright and interested, studious. I a not super keen on assessments and so I’m just happy she’s getting on very well socially and academically. She loves languages and unprompted her favourite new subject is German.

the challenge: there is a very unique school in our area (Europa if anyone knows) - it teaches primary bilingual so half the week is English and half the week is either french, German or Spanish.
for secondary they continue with the bilingual focus. Teaching history georgrsphy and literature in french. They do not do A levels (or even gcse) but prepare for the IB. they have good results. It’s a free government funded school. Yes - unique.

i am french and my husband English. My kids have had a standard U.K. education so far except for the few short years abroad where my daughter did the equivalent of Y1 at a french international school. She is fully bilingual

we have received an offer out of the blue for her to join after Easter

i don’t use mumsnet a lot but it’s here I have come across the expression “don’t move a happy child”

the advantages for her and my family are as follows:
if she takes the place her sister and brother woul be given priority automatically. This means my youngest could start reception next year in bilingual environment, and my middle child could join either in Y5 or Y7 depending what we decide.

it would be an amazing boost to their french. They speak it but without peers/ teaching etc, it’s made it really hard on me to be the sole provider of french and I revert to English often, as they know I understand everything: what’s the point of speaking to me in french, when it’s harder for them to do so: not a virtuous cycle!

she would work towards the IB in a demanding environment which I believe would suit her

BUT no school is perfect and like all others they have their own issues. The long term sustainability of the European project behind it… will it survive? A question for sure.

and more transport and therefore longer hours (not necessarily an issue, for my husband and I that means longer working days.. but not ideal for the reception child)

as you can imagine, very conflicted. There is no amount of tuition I believe would give them the experience of developing daily sustained friendships in the language….

i am aware of her being a strategic placement for the rest of my family to then join the school…

what would you think and ask yourself?

not looking for do this or that but rather : consider this or ask that.

thank you

Europa is good but there is a cost to moving a child. The time and effort to adjust and make new friends etc is shown to cause a learning loss/delay in progress.

Yes it would be beneficial for the siblings - but at what cost to her? She has friends, she’s in the scholars program, she likes where she is. She needs to have her needs as priority, not her siblings needs.

If she goes there, will she have any local friends?

What does she want? Could you arrange a school visit so she can make her own choice?

Is there a reason the IB would be better for her than GCSEs and A levels?

Could you offer her other opportunities to use her language? We send ours to summer camp for this purpose.

She’s happy, leave her

What does she want to do? Hard to answer without knowing what she wants

Id leave her but certainly try to get your other two there

I’d be letting my daughter decide. I’d also be looking at the results in more detail. Are the IB results impressive? Do they offer subjects that my daughter has an interest in? Where do people go to Uni? Funding looks issue? What happens if the school folds?

I could say more, but it might not be politic to do so. And I think you’ve answered your own question. Never move a happy child.

Yes we are visiting the school (again).

Prior to defaulting to the comp, and we’d seen the indépendant schools, Europa, and the comprehensive. She was equally excited to join all of them. Europa was not an option and we would have chosen it at the time if we had been given a place.

Well I’ve done that a few times and it’s worked great. We have moved countries and she has adapted well every time.

edicts like “never move a happy child” I am sure have their use and their limits. I just don’t like the word never :-)

i don’t mind politics at all, I am very open and want to hear all perspectives and views, so we can make the best decision

I’m not sure about letting an 11 year old decide. They are mostly focused on the short term and friendships. (At least mine is)

Of course it’s always harder to move to a new environment, no one ever finds a first day easy. I see it as our role to educate her about the choice as best as possible and show her how this choice can extend in the future and take her concerns into account, but ultimately parental responsibility needs to kick in.

thank you for all the questions- I will add to my list!

Sadly May never be a possibility again

She has no idea.. she’s only 11… she knows she doesn’t want to be a doctor… but anything’s ne everything could change right? Definitely not one of those who wants to be an astronaut since day1

Thank you for your detailed message. I’ve added some of your reflections to my list

Yes I’m aware of her needs vs family needs and it being unfair to have her carry any of this. However it is undeniable that if we don’t pick this place for her there is no chance my reception child gets a place there.

It will be very beneficial for herself for her French, no doubt. She would not state that as a need though.

IB vs A levels. I am not English myself and I always thought it odd that people would specialise down to only 3-4 subjects by 18. That being said it’s a bias from my own education where I carried 9-10 subjects until 18 and I like the idea of a broad based common core across society. I know it’s a bias because of the education system in Europe and I know A levels have their merits too (and are likely to change soon again). she shows great literary and scientific aptitude so I think the IB environment could suit her well.

thank you

I don't know the school you mention - do they have a 6th form intake? You should consider that IB is increasingly popular and is a self-contained 2-year programme. Your DD does not need to move school now in Y7 to be able to do IB rather than A levels later.

I think the difference between IB and A levels is really whether your child is an all rounder or a specialist. Two of my dc were very much specialists, really good at a more narrow set of subjects (e.g. sciences) but found a broad range more challenging. The other is very much an all rounder so would be able to and would enjoy continuing with a broader range of subjects. If grades are no object then of course it doesn't matter continuing a subsidiary subject to 18 but if you are wanting to do a subject with higher tariff you don't want scores on a different subject pulling the points down.

I would check if they still offer GCSE Maths/ English as these can be prerequisites for many jobs.

Op have you heard of John Hattie's effect sizes? He measured how different interventions/events affected children's academic attainment.

Moving between schools, except at the regular stage (eg primary to secondary) has a worse negative effect on attainment than lack of sleep, being suspended, or even being corporally punished at home.

So yeah. Don't move a happy child...! It literally has a worse effect on their academic attainment than smacking.

Source: https://visible-learning.org/hattie-ranking-influences-effect-sizes-learning-achievement/

I've copied a zoom in of the relevant bit of the data

Thanks, yes she’s an all rounder and makes links between disparate things so I think her mind is well suited to this

and No there are no GCSEs… I didn’t know this could be a requirement! Surely IB “trumps” GCSEs? Thanks for sharing that!

GCSESs or equivalent is the norm.

I think it's very risky so I'd be seriously weighing up the benefits to her and take the potential benefits to your other two out of it entirely.

I would be wary of finding problems down the line- this is Britain, after all, and we're congenitally suspicious of anything European-y. You need to ask a lot of questions about that. I think.

I dont know but think its a pity more schools dont offer thos.
As my dc would have been good at usong a dofferent labguage for some subject really upping the interest.
At my private school we had a danish girl and a german girl doing alevels - including sciences with us.
Im not sure re the IB as i doubr employers would know what it is.

Realisitically your dc already have you and each other etc to practise languages on.

My DD moved Primary school several times. By the time she was 10, it was clear she needed consistency going forward. And she's extremely happy and settled now. This is what not moving a happy child means

Your child is doing well at their current school, and is happy and settled. Moving risks upsetting this. Its a gamble.

I’m not sure why, but all the families I know who had their children in Europa for primary have removed them and sent them elsewhere for secondary (Wallingford, DGS). These are families who are also bilingual and where the children were coping well with the language, and who had been delighted to get a place for the children in the primary section. So for some reason they haven’t wanted to continue. Not sure why. Not sure how strong the offer is for extracurricular sport/drama/music is compared with other local schools.

Obviously this is just my observation on a tiny number of families but worth trying to dig a bit deeper into what the school actually offers/feels like day to day. Perhaps ask how many who are in the primary section continue into secondary?

Yes. Aware of that. Very much. And that’s my biggest reservation. as she’s moved several time / across countries and different educational systems. Even managed to miss Y2 entirely as different age cut offs by different systems and she’s born late august…

“gamble” is exactly what it feels like! On one side possibility to reap some real material benefits, and on the other, break something that is currently working very well.

If you move your daughter when she is settled and happy, it will cause problems and could set her back academically. When she realises that she is being 'used' to facilitate places for her siblings then I think she will be very resentful. I know I would be. There are also current threads on here about IB being viewed less favourably by UK universities. If you want your children to proceed through UK education establishments you may want to consider if your prejudice against GCSE/A Levels will be in the best interests of your children. Very interested also see poster above who knows of families removing their children from the proposed school for Secondaru. Presumably that is why they are offering you a place now. Maybe the place coming up is too good to be true and you need to investigate how many people are leaving the secondary and WHY.

Another thought - are you planning/likely to move abroad again? Is she likely to move to France or anywhere else in Europe ?

in other words - does she need to try and get a job in the UK at the end of all this? UK employers are a lot less familiar with the IB (unless you’re looking at City jobs).

I wouldn't necessarily think that moving schools in itself is a problem; there are issues with that bit of Hattie's data as from memory it includes all moves (eg because of bullying, managed moves etc) where a child may not already be thriving.

What I do think is a very strong predictor of achievement and happiness is peer group. What is her current friendship group like? The question about local friends might be important. Also definitely try and work out if there is significant movement from the secondary phase and why. IB is great if your child is thinking about working abroad at any point as it's such a universally respected qualification, but there are schools here where she can do that at sixth form as others have said.

My main concern would be as others have said if the investment will continue if the school loses students. It will rely largely on families like yours who are already bilingual and sadly post Brexit many that I know have stopped thinking of the UK as a good long term prospect for their children.