To move school mid Y7 when she is doing great?

[SimonBolivar]

Hello
my daughter has settled really well in a local comp. She was selected for the scholars program and may or may not be gifted but is super bright and interested, studious. I a not super keen on assessments and so I’m just happy she’s getting on very well socially and academically. She loves languages and unprompted her favourite new subject is German.

the challenge: there is a very unique school in our area (Europa if anyone knows) - it teaches primary bilingual so half the week is English and half the week is either french, German or Spanish.
for secondary they continue with the bilingual focus. Teaching history georgrsphy and literature in french. They do not do A levels (or even gcse) but prepare for the IB. they have good results. It’s a free government funded school. Yes - unique.

i am french and my husband English. My kids have had a standard U.K. education so far except for the few short years abroad where my daughter did the equivalent of Y1 at a french international school. She is fully bilingual

we have received an offer out of the blue for her to join after Easter

i don’t use mumsnet a lot but it’s here I have come across the expression “don’t move a happy child”

the advantages for her and my family are as follows:
if she takes the place her sister and brother woul be given priority automatically. This means my youngest could start reception next year in bilingual environment, and my middle child could join either in Y5 or Y7 depending what we decide.

it would be an amazing boost to their french. They speak it but without peers/ teaching etc, it’s made it really hard on me to be the sole provider of french and I revert to English often, as they know I understand everything: what’s the point of speaking to me in french, when it’s harder for them to do so: not a virtuous cycle!

she would work towards the IB in a demanding environment which I believe would suit her

BUT no school is perfect and like all others they have their own issues. The long term sustainability of the European project behind it… will it survive? A question for sure.

and more transport and therefore longer hours (not necessarily an issue, for my husband and I that means longer working days.. but not ideal for the reception child)

as you can imagine, very conflicted. There is no amount of tuition I believe would give them the experience of developing daily sustained friendships in the language….

i am aware of her being a strategic placement for the rest of my family to then join the school…

what would you think and ask yourself?

not looking for do this or that but rather : consider this or ask that.

thank you

I'd make a genuine offer to allow her to return to her other school if it doesn't work out. She's going from being special and a scholar and presumably a fair bit of work to get that? To now being like everyone else.

It's hard to be 11. You're not in control of that much and now she lost control further of so much that has been familiar for a long time.

I'd acknowledge there are going to be ups and downs. That it's not going to be plain sailing all the way through.

I'd imagine it will be OK but sometimes we need to know a safety net is below us so we can make the jump. If there's no safety net, it's terrifying. You sound good at jumping but not everyone is. In fact many people aren't.

@Vive42 I genuinely wouldn't do that, ever. She won't settle if she thinks there's a chance to come back. Plus that's also a lie, her space will likely be gone. I agree with the rest of it. With my DD the safety net was that if it's absolutely awful we will move her, but it won't be back to the same school she's just left.

@Foxesandsquirrels I'm in this exact situation with my DD for sixth form.

She wants to leave but she's scared. I have said she can return to the school she's currently at and if it doesn't work out at sixth form where she's planning to go, she can go back.

Other people have returned to the school after it not working out for them, it's not uncommon in fact. The school welcome them back.

It means she can try the new school without fear.

I also was given this option at 16 where I held two places. I was allowed to trial one week at the new school and my existing school were very magnanimous and agreed to allow me to go.

I met a lovely bunch of girls and stayed at the new school. But it made it so much less stressful to know the option to return was on the table.

I don't think "she'll never settle" is the case at all. Many move and are happy but a small fraction want to return and I don't see why there is a problem with it?

I would also have talked to her existing school and explained the situation and asked if they were comfortable to allow a trial.

Also OP the UK is much more flexible in terms of study-into-work opportunities than France - in fact most of the EU.

You can study History at degree level and as long as you have a B in maths A-level you can get hired by any of big five accountancy firms and train to be an accountant.

Similarly you can convert from chemistry degree to study Law via the legal practice course.

Graduate employers are very open to many different subjects in various companies. Of course medicine, dentistry, engineering etc - they all require specific degrees - but all the rest of the jobs - not so much.

Whilst I agree that the Bacc is great for all rounders there are I would guess, a majority of people that are skewed towards arts or STEM and allowing them to focus earlier at A-Levels on subjects they love is a win win. They are more focused and motivated and do better.

So the UK system I would argue is more flexible all round, despite narrowing earlier on. Just something to think about...

Europa is a bit weird in all things admissions though. I guess someone is leaving the French stream and they want the place filled.

@Vive42 that conversation is very different age 16 though and when it comes to sixth form. Ops dds space will get snapped up quickly. A 2 week trial age 11 with a promise to go back if it doesn't work out will be awful. It'll take about a term to see if it's really not going to work. No one will hold a spot that long.

@Foxesandsquirrels I disagree. I think it can be pretty apparent from early on if you'll like somewhere or not. If it's kind of OK in the first week, you just know it'll be OK probably.

The DC is a scholar so they obviously wanted her and would rather keep her, I'd imagine they'd be OK with her going off somewhere else. Why not even call in sick for 2 weeks!

Maybe OP has to pay extra set of school fees anyway if notice not given in time. As a parent I would almost feel entitled to a trial given that i'm paying so much that I may not be using up!

Some places you just know from day one there's an atmosphere, the teachers, the children, the setting - you feel it. But then I'm very attuned to places so perhaps it's different for me.

It's something that wasn't discussed by OP as to the character of her child- does she make friends easily, has she settled elsewhere OK?

It sounds like she does fine, so I'm sure it will be fine. I'd just be kind rather than so black and white. But hey, it's all just opinion on here, using our own frames of reference as a guide. I hope your DC settles well OP.

@Vive42 these are State schools, you can only be registered at one. And as soon as a space is available, they have to offer it to the next person on the list.

The best the OP could promise is going back on the waiting list.

I know I don’t know how it will work out. Trust me I know.

In the end my / our decision was this:
it’s FEAR making me scared of moving her. Of course it’s FEAR

and COURAGE that made us move her. It’s one of my key values. It’s bloody hard to look fear in the face and KNOW this may be, in hindsight the stupidest bet we’ve ever made. Because it’s a bet. A calculated gamble. Where you have no certainty on either side.

And if it backfires badly we will all pay dearly. And we will get through « it » together even if that means more moves and apologising we royally screwed up and trying to undo I’ve already played it out. And yet I still chose the scary road

but what if she is angry at us in 10 years because we let her stay at the local comp because she wanted to stay with friends who are no longer her friends and she sees with envy the others who took different roads (my husband’s own regrets regarding his education and his parents who were very conflict avoidant with all their kids)

but if our intuition is right yes there will be a short term impact, painful, deeply, I know how stubborn she is. and I also believe she will fall into friendship groups and everything will eventually be OK and better for her long term.

if only you could predict these things

ps not possible to start any earlier as the other kid is leaving at Easter

@Vive42 u do know the state school she's joining would have to receive documents from her previous state school? Confidential files etc... you can't just pretend you're sick for two weeks. I don't think you realise how admissions work. Being part of a scholars programme in your local comp is not the same as being a scholar in a private school. It's not a factor in admissions at all. I think you've misread the OP.

I feel desperately sorry for her. You're not prepared to listen to anything that will change your mind. And ultimately you've done this for the sake of your other children.

My parents made some big decisions for me, that I argued and disagreed with, but because they made sense for my brother they wouldn't budge.

I absolutely can hold my own and learnt to adapt. But my dad I haven't seen in 25 years, my mum died with me being NC for three years prior to her death and I had a poor relationship with my brother that is only just easing.

But I'm sure you'll be fine you will all get through it 🙄, but actually she is the one that has to get through it.
You run the risk of her hating you and doing irreparable damage.

@ZeroFucksGivenToday look I'm not saying I'd do what OP has done but come on, moving an 11 year old to a different school is not really going NC material. If you went NC with your parents over a single choice like this than you're the problem.

In fairness there were lots of other reasons too. (And they were huge) But I'm trying to say that the crux of a lot of our issues was my brothers happiness was definitely prioritised over mine. And that has a massive effect. And that by the OPs own admission is what has happened here. Her DD doesn't want to move, she's said that. And because of the priority of getting the other kids in, that decision has been made anyway.

Ops DD may settle and they live happily ever after, but if she doesn't, then that can absolutely cause a huge amount of resentment that never goes away.

And like it or not, it's the DD that has to work through the effects of that decision.

I just probably explained it badly.

@ZeroFucksGivenToday As I said, I'm not fully on OPs side, I've been critical of their decision myself but you're really reaching here and I don't think it's fair of your to say that these obviously loving parents will end up NC with their kid because of this. They've listed the siblings getting in as a pro and not the only reason. From their updates it's clear this may well be a better place for their DD, but it's not without its struggles.

@Foxesandsquirrels absolutely fair comment. I guess I can only give examples I know.

And NC is likely to be a very far stretch.

But there still can be a huge amount of resentment and anger building up at a very challenging time in the DDs life. And it may not be as simple as getting through it.

I do marginally disagree with the fact of the other reasons. The key driver in this is getting the other children a place. op said herself without that she'd unlikely consider moving a happy child. So the DD is being moved to facilitate this. That could absolutely backfire.

I think we agree on it not being ideal @Foxesandsquirrels , I just could have softened my response. So Op I apologise for that.

And equally the other kids could get places without the older sibling. They're outside the bulge years that are ending this year. This may well lead to resentment from the eldest that they didn't go and didn't have those opportunities in the local comp. Lots happens in y8 and 9 with girls. She may not stay happy, friendships don't stick, lots can happen. I'm just saying, there's always different angles and it's not that easy.

I think scenarios like this often trigger people like you for obvious and understandable reasons.

My mistake. I didn’t realise she was at a state school already. I thought scholars only existed in private schools and DD was at a private school.

Ive had kids in both and only ever encountered scholars in private. I’ve learnt something today!

Then in that case it’s a straight switch. DD could still go back. I don’t see why you don’t gently offer it, with the caveat she absolutely tries to settle for at least a couple of terms.

Ive changed my mind also on account of this and think you’re doing the right thing OP. You’ve got to give it a chance. It offers blended learning and it’s a unique opportunity that fits with your family set up.

@Vive42
"Then in that case it’s a straight switch. DD could still go back."

She probably won't be able to. I would never ever suggest this to a child unless it's guaranteed which this isn't at all, esp at a popular comp.

*In the end my / our decision was this:
it’s FEAR making me scared of moving her. Of course it’s FEAR

and COURAGE that made us move her. It’s one of my key values.*

Sorry but that's simply nonsense and I think you know it, op, you don't seem daft.

Why not consider

CAUTION vs RECKLESSNESS

or COMPASSION vs AMBITION

or any other number of meaningless block-capitalised words?

You can't oversimplify a decision like this into one word vs another. This is your dd's real life, not a trite slogan on a Facebook meme

@Mumoftwo1312 I have to say that also made me cringe a bit too, it's not really a Pinterest type situation really. Anyway, hopefully it all goes well.

I agree with Zerofuckd, you can dress this up in whatever way you want to try and justify the decision that you had made even before making this post because ultimately you made the decision you wanted for the whole family. It may work out, it may not for your daughter but if she recognises why the decision was made it could make your relationship tricky.

my grandad regretted a decision he made at 11 not to stay in Monmouth where he was evacuated and had passed the 11+ but he knew the decision was his even at 11. Your husband seems to blame his parents for letting him make the decision but how were they to know.

dressing it up as she had a choice when she didn’t isn’t helpful particularly as I th8nk eoth9n reason it was partly her decision to make

Hmm. Firstly, I’m also EU with 3 British/EU dual national kids settled in the UK. My oldest is brilliant at my native language and it got progressively more tricky to teach the younger kids my native language. I understand the desire to pass on as much culture as possible.

But there was a point where I let my kids decide their own culture and it’s not purely my EU heritage. And I’ve made peace with that.

Here’s some things to consider:

• Is the Europa school really more prestigious than being a scholar at the local comp?
• Is an IB useful for your daughter?
• Are you sure she’ll speak French outside her specific lesson?
• why is it so important for you that she also writes and converses at the highest level in French?
• you speak of ‘courage’ and ‘fear’ as if YOU yourself are doing something big. Are you aware that it’s your daughter you’re expecting to defeat fear and show courage?
• how will your daughter feel if she realises she has to trailblaze a place for her siblings? How will this impact sibling relationship?
• are you sure you’ll be able to undo any collateral damage and is that worth it to you?
• what are the different roads that the Europa school opens that people would look enviably on?
• how is the movement in the school, is it a transient body of students?
• are you sure the stability of current friendships will stay the same for your daughter?

I was your daughter. I'm trilingual because my parents moved around a lot when I was young and I went to six different schools in 5 different countries. When I was your daughter's age I was at an absolutely fantastic school that I loved and didn't want to leave. My parents moved me (as they moved countries again) and I absolutely HATED the new school and although I adapted and have fantastic language skills from all the moving around, I was never ever as happy again as I was aged 11 at the lovely school I was moved from.

It’s all free school managed by the local authorities - we’ve accepted the new place so the old place is gone and yes there is waitlist - on both sides