To move school mid Y7 when she is doing great?

[SimonBolivar]

Hello
my daughter has settled really well in a local comp. She was selected for the scholars program and may or may not be gifted but is super bright and interested, studious. I a not super keen on assessments and so I’m just happy she’s getting on very well socially and academically. She loves languages and unprompted her favourite new subject is German.

the challenge: there is a very unique school in our area (Europa if anyone knows) - it teaches primary bilingual so half the week is English and half the week is either french, German or Spanish.
for secondary they continue with the bilingual focus. Teaching history georgrsphy and literature in french. They do not do A levels (or even gcse) but prepare for the IB. they have good results. It’s a free government funded school. Yes - unique.

i am french and my husband English. My kids have had a standard U.K. education so far except for the few short years abroad where my daughter did the equivalent of Y1 at a french international school. She is fully bilingual

we have received an offer out of the blue for her to join after Easter

i don’t use mumsnet a lot but it’s here I have come across the expression “don’t move a happy child”

the advantages for her and my family are as follows:
if she takes the place her sister and brother woul be given priority automatically. This means my youngest could start reception next year in bilingual environment, and my middle child could join either in Y5 or Y7 depending what we decide.

it would be an amazing boost to their french. They speak it but without peers/ teaching etc, it’s made it really hard on me to be the sole provider of french and I revert to English often, as they know I understand everything: what’s the point of speaking to me in french, when it’s harder for them to do so: not a virtuous cycle!

she would work towards the IB in a demanding environment which I believe would suit her

BUT no school is perfect and like all others they have their own issues. The long term sustainability of the European project behind it… will it survive? A question for sure.

and more transport and therefore longer hours (not necessarily an issue, for my husband and I that means longer working days.. but not ideal for the reception child)

as you can imagine, very conflicted. There is no amount of tuition I believe would give them the experience of developing daily sustained friendships in the language….

i am aware of her being a strategic placement for the rest of my family to then join the school…

what would you think and ask yourself?

not looking for do this or that but rather : consider this or ask that.

thank you

Just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone. I am going to disconnect now. It's given me a lot of thoughts and questions to ask.

One last remark. If only I'd started a tracker of how many hours of research, discussions with parents, discussions with my husband and my child, or online I've spent - about secondary education. There is so much choice here, but in other countries, there will be parents where this whole "which school to go to" is just a non subject. And it's good, standard, education. Imagine that.

How many days of your life and sanity you'd recoup!

I don’t care who the hell John Hattie is but that is absolute crap. You can engineer any data you want from the right set of questions!
Corporal punishment is ‘flogging’ and ‘ caning’, I had a taste of that in the 70’s and it scars you for life.
How awful of you to present this table as some sort of reason not to move schools. My children had to move schools aged 14 & 10 due to husbands promotion and with all the love and care we could manage we made it work. They are both successful 30 somethings and have no scars from moving schools!

Hi everyone,

we took the decision to move our girl. She is displeased (an understatement).
at the end of the day she’s only 11, we have her best interests at heart and we are confident she can conquer the emotional upheaval of moving schools making new friends etc.

with that’s said she’s really super mad at us, we’re ruining her life, we’re monsters
for forcing her to go etc…

I can write what I’m writing because I know in my heart of heart that this decision was made out of love for her and consideration for her and we are ready for a rough few months as she adjusts

and I wonder if you have any good recommendations for teen / YA books that deal with big changes instigated by parents or feel unfair like moving schools or country that could help her at this stage without being too obvious - she’s an avid reader

inside out is a good movie for example (minus the part where she runs away!)

thank you

@SimonBolivar oh gosh. When does she start?

After Easter break. We have 6 weeks from acceptance and deadline for acceptance was today

Wow that's unusual for a state school. Hopefully she comes round.

We moved when DC were teenagers, it was unavoidable but an inevitably highly emotional time. My first advice is allow her to feel what she's feeling, don't dismiss it or say 'everything will be fine' she's all sorts of combinations of angry, frustrated, scared, overwhelmed and not in control of her own destiny, so it's ok she's lashing out. Obviously there are boundaries in terms of behaviour but let her feel all those emotions- it may be the first time she's experienced some of them on such a scale.

Can't recommend any books but things that helped my two were going in to see the new school - you need to judge the timing if she's too angry still she won't appreciate it, but you don't have much time so maybe in a few weeks just before the break. I'd also recommend a bit of flexibility on social stuff with old friends and screen time especially after the move, she's going to need those connections with old friends to help her settle in the new place and that might happen online if they don't see each other during the week. Can the school find her a buddy - maybe who lives near by, similar interests to help her first couple of days? As an international cohort they'll be use to settling in new kids.

Anyway in all honesty it just takes time, for us, one of ours settled in about 3-4 month, for the other it took a good year to settle. So you may be in for a long haul but just remember why you made the choice and hopefully it she will come round quickly.

Poor kid. I have no further advice, I'm afraid.

Sorry but I don’t think books are going to help with this. I think she deserves to be really listened to. Previously you though she was indifferent to the choice of schools but things have moved on and now you know she really isn’t. It’s far from obvious that this move is in her best interests. Your intelligent child has lots to say about whether you should be going through with this - please let her tell you, without seeing it as an opportunity for you to tell her why she is wrong.

I don't want to pile onto you, I'm sure this wasn't an easy decision but please don't give her a book about changes. She sounds intelligent and it's very patronising. She's not 8. You just need to ride this out I'm afraid. It's a shame she can't start before Easter, your holidays will be a bit miserable and the time she's waiting to move will add to anxiety. In my experience, it's better if they just start on a Monday so there's no anxiously long waits. Is there any way she could start before Easter?

@Foxesandsquirrels I haven’t asked about moving before Easter - interesting idea. I’m guessing the kid who’s moving abroad is using the Easter holiday for their move… yes the whole period of time is adding to the anxiety and we’re ready for a crap Easter holiday… though we have some stuff booked that she absolutely loves… will explore that idea though to see if it’s an option. Thank you

@JessyCarr i thought she was indifferent because until Saturday - even after the visit of the school she wouldn’t say anything she liked or disliked. She came to the school visit without an issue, wanted to see the schedule and get a map of the site. You could describe her as ambivalent. There’s definitely pros and cons and for us to wrap our heads around was difficult enough. I don’t expect a child - with valid emotions, and inbuilt fear of change, built into all of us - to be able to integrate all the variables we considered and struggled to weigh.

she flipped on Sunday / the day of the decision/ when she was getting ready to meet a few of the future classmates for a social meet up at a local park… she was getting ready and when it was time to get in the car completely kicked off / like a horse. It wasn’t a panic attack it was more like a tantrum I’m not going / you can’t make me.

so that was probably a mistake and put too much pressure on her

I would love nothing more but for her to open and tell us what’s going on in there but she is a very internal person. i don’t want to patronise her but I know books and the written language and stories are ways in which she can tap into her emotions.

Usually she opens up last thing in the day when putting her to bed. But you could say she has in general a poor ability to express her emotions at best of time and keeps them bottled up inside. Her other 2 siblings aren’t like that.

i really want to listen, she just hasn’t given us anything except - I’ll miss my friends and I don’t want to go.

i have even considered the following: she was ambivalent BUT ever since she missed 2 periods at her current school to visit the school all her class is aware she could move. Maybe it’s easier for her as a narrative to leave her current friends if she’s “forced to” than if she says she wants to. It’s a very hard thing to say to your friends/ I’m leaving you because I want to. ? Just a thought.

thanks @HaveringGold for the helpful suggestions

and for those who think we are making a huge mistake thank you for your concern. I feel ok with where we landed because I know I really considered everything I could, including her views, including even the horrible stats of MH issues in girls at that age.. toughest decision because it carries risks, it’s undeniable.

Oh I thought it was the standard process -at least here in Oxfordshire it is

I'd move her before Easter if you possibly can.
Mine started a few weeks before the end of the school year. It was the best thing we did (after DS2 accepted he'd finished Y3, but yes, he was back in Y3, and no, he wouldn't be in Y3 after the summer holidays).
I'd get her started as soon as you can get uniform sorted.

6 weeks to accept is very very unusual.

@SimonBolivar I would strongly push for a start before Easter.

Do your DC have dual nationality?
Less point in speaking fluent French if its difficult for them to live and work there in the future, although additional languages are always great to have.

She must feel frustrated because you are convinced this is in her best interests. So, trying to explain to you why she doesn't want to go, is an uphill battle.

A few key points: you said she replies in English when you speak to her in French. I was the same as a child (brought up in a trilingual household, never picked up the other two languages and almost developed selective mutism from the stress of it). If she doesn't enjoy a bilingual home, she'll probably find a bilingual academic environment worse.

Secondly you say blithely that she's bad at expressing emotion - but she's trying to now. I think based on your update, it's you who is unreceptive.

I wouldn't underestimate how hard it is to make a whole new set of friends, get to know a whole new set of teachers, especially for certain personality types. A defensive mum upthread got angry at me for saying so, but it's been shown to set kids back academically.

Trust your daughter's instincts. The touted benefits of this school don't seem to outweigh the upset you are putting her through

"i really want to listen, she just hasn’t given us anything except - I’ll miss my friends and I don’t want to go."

@SimonBolivar in the kindest way possible, she's 11. What are you expecting her to say? That is what's important for her. She is telling you but you're not listening. She's even snowing you with her behaviour. It does feel a little bit like you're only willing to accept one answer from her.
On one hand you're expecting her to have a very mature and understanding response, and at the same time you're looking for something as patronising as a book about changes...
Don't expect her to be jumping with joy and do accept that as a parent there are decisions you'll make where you'll need to be a punching bag for a little bit. Obv there's limits but her response is very normal.
Don't just go on about how amazing it'll be. She needs to hear from you that you also share some of her concerns and that it'll be ok. You acknowledge she's only 11 and the decision is yours, but you are expecting her reaction to be the same as someone much older. You need to lay out what you're going to do to support her, even if it means telling her that look, it's ok if you're angry at me for a bit, I understand.

Why would she make the effort, painstakingly and excruciatingly, to explain all her reasons for not wanting to go, if she knows you won't change your mind? That's a lot of emotional effort, to stay calm and analytically explain. She knows instinctively that even if you "listen", ie quietly hear what she's saying, you won't "listen" as in allow your opinion to be changed.

Several posters on here have attempted to dissuade you of this plan, and we have the advantage of not being emotionally involved, and being grown ups. And we've failed. So what hope does she have? So she doesn't even try, there's no use

I honestly don’t really see why it would be worth all this. You have already done all the hard work of teaching her French at home. If being excellent in written french becomes important at any point she will have the basis to achieve that. If I were you I would leave her where she is and put my energy into strict OPOL at home and spending as much time in France as possible during the holidays.

I just looked at the website. She won't do any GCSEs? I was going to suggest maybe telling her she can always move for sixth form but you're really in for the long haul at this school. How on earth do you know at 11 that she will be suitable for IB?

@Mumoftwo1312
thank you

it’s hard to convey our unique situation
she doesn’t struggle in a bilingual environment. She spends all summer in french and speaks French fluently. Yes she’s french too. We have holidays with other french English families and she thrives there, constantly switching between the different language/ kids. when it’s my family and 100% in french with her cousins she’s happy too.
There was a French exchange student and she loved spending time with her.

She attended the equivalent of Reception year 1 in french school in Hong Kong which if I remember correctly was mostly of not all in french. She did really well there (and everywhere). In many ways she thinks she already knows French (spoken yes, not written!)

it’s my other 2 siblings who respond in English and that means as siblings they speak English between each other gradually we have become an English speaking HH.

Of the 3 she is most able in french not because she’s older but because I spoke exclusively in french to her at first… and then several dynamics made this harder and harder for the other siblings

i have not tried to convince her of anything - we just shared what we saw as positives for her as well as pros and cons that she then rated (on excel) - but basically she gave all top marks to her current school and all down marks to the new school so you can see in her brain it’s all black and white at the moment - no nuance.

so she has not given us « anything » except « I don’t want to go » at the last minute

At that point we pushed her to give us specifics, any specifics, and she just stays at I don’t want to go. I am very very happy to listen but we had a time boundaried decision to take, we even asked for an extension in light of new info when she buckled and were denied it and we needed specifics from Her if we were to take into account.

(Blanket no whithout understand why made us feel like it’s emotional rather than considered rejection)

my bet is that it’s purely friendships that’s the issue, not academics, not languages, it’s all seen through the emotional lense of friends and security (which she keeps as we don’t move)

but so far conversations still don’t really go into specifics of what she’s scared or worried about. It started a bit more as I try and console her she has splurged a few words and then she moves on. But she hasn’t « opened up » yet. It’s still fresh
My guess is it’s too overwhelming at the moment.

actively enquiring about moving her sooner- if she wishes to.

Thank you all for all your inputs - i can see I could spend a lot of time here justifying our decision.
I truly appreciated all your inputs those I agreed with and those who made me consider new angles
I want to assure you I a listening to her and I know her enough to feel confident to make this decision for her. And yes it’s an unpopular decision, at home and here.

thank you still

I can see your point of view, she’s only 11 and she’s not giving you any reasons other than friendships. But at 11 friendship is the most important thing to her, and however much you say she won’t lose those friends their relationship will change, and you do need to acknowledge that with her.

My parents decided we should all go to boarding school for sixth form, as our school was dire. The eldest loved it so they pushed second child, who purposely failed her GCSEs so she couldn’t go. Despite that they then pushed me even more, so I also failed a lot of mine on purpose so I could only go to the local college.

Nobody can see into the future, she may settle quickly and thrive at the new school, I really hope she does. But if she doesn’t, please take her seriously and listen to her. If she hates it please move her back. Keep a close eye on how she is coping, not academically but her mental health and her wellbeing. If she’s prone to internalising feelings this is even more important to be vigilant about as it may not be obvious.

@SimonBolivar I do think you seem very reasonable and you writing that context does make more sense. Just so you know, I'm not anti moving schools. I essentially forced my DD to move at the end of Y10 last year, retake 10 and a term in had to accept it was the worst thing. I've just moved her AGAIN and she's finally happy again. This is a kid who, 10 months ago, had the most normal education and only moved schools once, at the normal time. Since July last year she's been to 3 different secondary schools!
My point is, you really never know what will work out. DD was fine to move last year, until we got the go ahead and it was real. We had the biggest pushback ever and all summer long I was enemy number 1. You can imagine what happened when it turned out the school was rubbish and she only lasted a term there!