Year 7 - bottom set - should I worry?

[NewYear7Mum]

My DD has struggled with maths and English since reception. She couldn't really read until year 5.
Assessments always indicate potential. Homework which she does by herself in school for maths doesn't have many errors if at all but tests and exams have again ended up with scores of 30% or less.
She can't spell.
She's been for a dyslexia assessment and she's not dyslexic.
She just can't seem to retain any exceptions only the main rules.
She did start at the "under performing" in reception and ended up "average" in year 6.
Now they've done one of those exams and she's once again bottom of the class.
Am I really going to have to worry about her for another 6 years?
Anyone with experience of a child who seems bright but nothing ever seems to click? And I mean nothing...
She likes art and science but those don't click either.
She's sporty but can't seem to coordinate her body.
She's born into a bilingual family but can't speak her second language (her younger sibling does! )
She has practiced the same music instrument of her choice for years but can't get to grade 1. She's not a quitter which is great. we've told her many times she can stop but she doesn't want to.
Does being the youngest in the class have this much impact?

She's had so much support during the primary school years. People always said "don't worry, it will click". Please when does it click? I don't want her crying herself to sleep every night because she's not meeting her own expectations. She really did feel that because homework was going so well without support that she was doing well!

Sorry for the long one but does anyone have a similar experience?

I would consider paying for a full ed psych evaluation.

Thank you but what is an ed psych evaluation please? And where would I find a reputable professional for this?

The primary school recommended the person who did the dyslexia assessment.

It is possible to see a private educational psychologist who will undertake a wide range of assessments with your daughter including reasoning tests and IQ tests which do not involve reading. I was a SENCO at a large comprehensive school and the Head hired the services of a private Ed Psych to help with EHCP assessments as the Local Authority provision was not sufficient to meet our needs.

A private assessment would be quite expensive as I would expect several visits to be necessary to do a full range of tests but it would be helpful to find out your daughter specific strengths and weaknesses. If you go down this route, maybe chat to the school first to see if they can recommend someone or point you in the right direction.

I understand now. The school has already mentioned doing some assessments. It will soon be parents evening again. I will ask the form teacher.

You may find arranging a meeting with the teacher before/after school to discuss this issue better than waiting to have a conversation with them at parents evening.

Not sure what the system is in your school, but parents evenings at my children's school is limited to five minutes and often feels rushed. You might find it more useful to arrange a separate meeting.

This is not a young in year thing.
I agree with an ed psych or similar assessment.
Have you considered dyspraxia?
My eldest with dyspraxia has trouble retrieving information. Her mind, instead of being an organised cross referenced filing cabinet, is like you tipped all the papers out and then let a small child mess them further. She knows the info, but can't find it, and makes random links that aren't really there.

An assessment will help you know what is going on.

I also echo ed psych. Possible ADHD meaning she is unable to concentrate? My DDs friend was diagnosed a year ago (yr5) after years of being ‘behind’ on most subjects. Medication has changed her life and she can now focus and concentrate. Girls often present with different symptoms to boyes when it comes to ADHD

Rather than wait until parents evening, I would arrange to speak to the SENCO separately. That will you will have longer and they will be prepared for the conversation. Knowing you have concerns will help them too. At the moment, they may have noticed there is "something" about your child but still be trying to identify if it might just be that she's not settling in or various other things. Knowing there is a history of concerns and that they have your support may change their approach.

I second, or third (?), the private Ed psych route, if you can afford it. We've just has one for our child (it's cost about £800 for reference) and suddenly a lot of things have made sense, to us as parents and to our child.

I woild buy a book of 11+ reasoninf tests verbal and non verbal and see how she gets on to see if it's a lack of intelligence that is holding her back

Or ask tge school for a breakdown of her CATS test scores

so much of what you’re saying resonates with me because my son has dyspraxia. If you can afford it, I would pursue an appointment with an Ed psych, but a full assessment will be pricey. A dyspraxia assessment (go through the British Dyspraxia Association) cost in the region of £800 (which is a lot less than an Ed psych assessment, and also a much quicker process).

Quite honestly, yes. You do need to worry. My dc went to school in another country for many years and were behind when we came back to the UK and in the bottom groups for everything.

A big issue is the behaviour in those groups. And a lack of interaction in lessons. When teachers ask a question or for ideas then none are forthcoming.

It sounds like a working memory issue.

DD did the WISC V as part of her autism assessment, this looks at Verbal comprehension, working memory, processing speed and some other areas and gives a breakdown of a child's strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't test content knowledge more how the brain works and might be useful to you. Dyslexia is not the only condition that impacts academic learning but is often the first one people go too.

The whole autism assessment was £2.3k but the WISC V will be a much smaller part of that total although I didn't have a breakdown for it.

It is essential for children who struggle academically to have something the excel at outside of school to maintain their self esteem, doesn't matter what it is - bird watching, baking, a sport etc. You need to make it so that her sense of self isn't wrapped up in her academic struggles

I think I would start with maths. The rules are clear and you can break it down to see where the problems are.

Can she add? 1 digit numbers, 2 digits?, 3 digits?
Can she subtract? Same as above?
Can she divide? If not on paper, can she share sweets between bowls?
Can she multiply? If not on paper, can she make groups of sweets and then put enough groups together to make a total number of sweets?

What is she finding hard? Has she missed some early stuff which makes the hard stuff impossible?

You'll start to get an idea of whether it's 'can't' or 'just hasn't learned yet'.

Most schools won’t take a private Ed P report as they have them available to schools.

They don’t have to take a third parties opinion - don’t waste your money.

I would also speak to the SENCO so many are unreported to the SENCO and get missed. Especially in large schools.

There are programs that help.

Yes I’m afraid you do need to be concerned . She is struggling particularly with exams. Not reading until so late is worrying too. She needs an assessment and it would be better to make an appointment for a li her chat with her teacher. Not parents evening…

I wonder if she fonds homework easier because they have just learnt that method and she can keep applying it. Once she gets to a test, she either hasn't retained it or can't work out which method she needs for each question.

She sounds like she has a fab attitude. I would definitely pursue an Ed psych assessment. Try asking school first. They may suggest learning strategies to help.

Best thing to do is to ring the school and set up a face to face meeting with the SENDCO, go through your concerns - you can send these in advance so that the SENDCO can have her books pulled and look through them.

Discuss ways to move forward and what adjustments can be made. Support in schools should be needs based not diagnosis based but if she's quiet and compliant it's likely she'll fly under the radar
Discuss whether they can organise an ed psych evaluation, and if not or waiting lists are long ask if they accept private ones instead.

But really it's the SENDCO that makes decisions so you need to go through them, different schools do different things so getting opinions on MN may be useful but not directly relevant to your school

This sounds like how my Foster Son was. I got a full Ed Psych assessment and it highlighted poor memory and low IQ. To speak with FS you'd not really guess this could be an issue. It allowed us to get a SN tutor for Maths, Science and English. He is a very hard worker and enjoys learning and liked having a personal tutor because it meant he could learn at his own pace. At the end of Year 11 he got level 4 and level 3 for Science, level 3 for Maths, Food Technology level 4 and PE level 4. He did an Entry Level 3 in English. He went to college and studied a BTech in Sport and GCSE in Maths and Functional Skills level 1 in English. He passed his GCSE Maths level 4 and Functional Skill 1 in English as well as gaining Merits for BTec Sport level 2 which is worth 4 Gcse at level 5. Now he's studying BTech Sport Level 3 and GCSE English. He's going well on his course so far. He needed the extra year studying level 2 gave him. Some DC take longer to get there than others. I know a lot of DC would have given up after leaving school but FS loves learning and I see him improving over time and he's gaining in confidence too. He has always been very good at several sports. I think you might get an assessment from Ed Psych and if it is highlighted your DD has memory or low IQ problems just know with hard work, time and an excellent tutor who will Tailor learning to her strengths she can still achieve, she might need an additional year and to focus upon one or two subjects at a time. I know without his tutor my FS could not have achieved what he has so far. He doesn't have the tutor anymore. Good luck to your DD.

I’m sorry you are worried - currently going through assessments for my Y9 son but at least part of his problem is he’s a lazy arse! Please praise her for her attitude to learning and working hard - she must have put so much effort in to get average results when it’s all been difficult for her. That willingness to work at something will take her a long way in life even if she is not the most academic. We have finally found a SENCO that is supporting us and it makes such a difference. Good luck!

Yup Ed psych needed. I can see dyspraxic in what you have said possibly adhd

It is essential for children who struggle academically to have something the excel at outside of school to maintain their self esteem, doesn't matter what it is - bird watching, baking, a sport etc. You need to make it so that her sense of self isn't wrapped up in her academic struggles.

This is so important, there may be SEN or she may just not be very clever. We can’t all be average or above. Either way you’ve had some good advice on this thread re assessments but please don’t underestimate the importance of the above. She needs to have things outside of school that she can and does excel at.

Could she do an art class? Or if she’s un-coordinated would she be better at cycling than ball games. Would she enjoy a drama group?

Yes also agree ful educational psychologist report - did the same for my daughter which shows specific learning difficulties- splds on processing/ working memory /executive function / gifted IQ

she wasn’t diagnosed dyslexia but ASD, eyesight problems - longstanding and had double vision for years (she thought it was normal)

def go to SENCO. You might need to go private as hard to get this done I think but do ask xx

Thanks very much all.

Her dyslexia assessment also checked for dyscalcula so I'm not sure i still need ed psych and it sounds expensive but I've sent an initial email to the form tutor and I'll follow up with the senco - who should already be monitoring her as that was the agreement during the transfer from primary.

Re extra curricular activities - we have truly tried all sorts but nothing seems to be her thing. We've carried on doing the most interesting ones but it is devastating to see her have high expectations during practice and not achieve these when it matters. She'll be more devastated if we stopped the activities so we've carried on(I think it's a sunk cost fallacy but she's young and it's keeping her engaged... can't hurt surely? )
Left to her the only thing she'd do is watch artists on YouTube...

I've got my mummy head back on and I have the energy to worry through. Thanks again.