Year 7 - bottom set - should I worry?

[NewYear7Mum]

My DD has struggled with maths and English since reception. She couldn't really read until year 5.
Assessments always indicate potential. Homework which she does by herself in school for maths doesn't have many errors if at all but tests and exams have again ended up with scores of 30% or less.
She can't spell.
She's been for a dyslexia assessment and she's not dyslexic.
She just can't seem to retain any exceptions only the main rules.
She did start at the "under performing" in reception and ended up "average" in year 6.
Now they've done one of those exams and she's once again bottom of the class.
Am I really going to have to worry about her for another 6 years?
Anyone with experience of a child who seems bright but nothing ever seems to click? And I mean nothing...
She likes art and science but those don't click either.
She's sporty but can't seem to coordinate her body.
She's born into a bilingual family but can't speak her second language (her younger sibling does! )
She has practiced the same music instrument of her choice for years but can't get to grade 1. She's not a quitter which is great. we've told her many times she can stop but she doesn't want to.
Does being the youngest in the class have this much impact?

She's had so much support during the primary school years. People always said "don't worry, it will click". Please when does it click? I don't want her crying herself to sleep every night because she's not meeting her own expectations. She really did feel that because homework was going so well without support that she was doing well!

Sorry for the long one but does anyone have a similar experience?

What you need is an assessment that looks at all the things like short term memory, phonological awareness, spatial awareness, processing speed etc etc.

My DD2 came out as 'average' for underlying cognitive ability but 'well below average' (bottom 2?%) for a number of other things. It explained why she had got so tired with schooling, she used all her energy just concentrating in class.

If you get a good understanding you will be in a better place to ask for adjustments in school such as dropping MFL, reduced GCSEs later on etc.

I have a friend who's DD struggled to spell, got 1 or 2/10 consistently throughout primary tests, found maths incredibly hard but worked her socks off. By the end of school she was actually achieving higher maths results than her lazier but brighter friends. She had had to work so hard she really learned how to learn. However, I do think some more support earlier might have helped her. I would get some investigations done to see if there is a specific issue or if it is just going to take time. Not everyone can be average or above but a good attitude and hard work will go a long way to having a happy and fulfilling life. Keep building her resilience too.

That would be my suggestion too.

This sounds like my DD. She couldn't retain anything for long. Her much younger brother was reading and she couldn't. Even in year 6 her standard of reading and maths was so poor that it was clear that her teacher regarded her as of low ability and low IQ. There's no way she could have learnt another language.

She struggled through secondary school until year 11 when she suddenly started to blossom. I had been told her entire school life that she'd blossom one day. I was sick of hearing it. By the time she was 19 she had two highest grade A levels and one B grade. Bearing in mind she had two poor GCSEs, this was amazing. She now has two degrees.

I have no idea why she suddenly was able to achieve. My guess it was the brain maturing. All testing had come to no conclusion. OP, I really hope your DD will be like mine and everything will click eventually.

When you say she's had dyslexia screening was it a full assessment or just a screening? My son is dyslexic and we had to get a private assessment for him-
that included a lot of other information including underlying IQ, verbal processing and working memory etc. It took about half a day, but was still a lot cheaper than a full EP assessment. He has a very typically 'spiky' profile, and knowing where his strengths and weaknesses are has really helped his self esteem.

We had no issue with his high school accepting it (primary took a bit more persuasion but that was because they had been telling us for years that he was fine 🙄)

My DD failed the phonics test, then failed the 11+. She isn’t great at retaining loads of the information and has good days and bad days.

She has become very resilient through it though and worked out coping strategies herself. She is probably what is referred to as a “late bloomer” because she’s now predicted 3 x As at A level. This is in the main because A levels aren’t about just rote learning! Am hoping she flies at uni, where she can use her brain rather than just rehashing retained information.

It has always frustrated us hugely that so much of a child’s success is essentially down to how well they retain information. My DD had the best tone and style on her musical instrument and had a great affinity with music through dance - but even these were all about how well you copied steps/scales. Depressing. No space for adaptation, individuality or using your brain to do anything different.

When you go to the parents evening, see if the individual teachers have concerns and what those concerns are. Then you can ask to meet the SENCo, with information about her levels, strengths and weaknesses. There should also be information from her primary school and any assessments that have taken place since September.

When you have that information, you can discuss what steps to take. It may be that a full assessment from an Ed Psych is the way to go, or tutors for specific subjects, or any one of a number of things.

My boy was in bottom sets all through school. It took him longer than his peers to get things.

Hi OP

Children who don't do well in primary school fall into two groups. There's the kids for who it eventually clicks - and you've had a couple of stories of those on the thread. And then there are the kids where it doesn't, and people don't tend to talk about those.

One of the reasons primary schools are often seen as quite keen to diagnose kids is that they want to find out if there is a reason why the kid isn't "clicking". So a child with dyslexia, is going to need different teaching to that offered in the classroom so that she can progress.

The reason that people are suggesting referral to an educational psychologist on this thread is because of she is in bottom sets at year 7 and has struggled with English and maths all through primary the chances are there is a reason why the teaching she has been getting isn't working for her.

Once you know that reason, then you can work directly on that. And improving that will mean that the teaching she is getting will have an impact.

A boring example - my DS had trouble changing the focus of his eyes quickly. He could see okay, but when he had to copy from the board he was very very slow because he'd look at the board, slowly focus on the next few words, remember them, look down at his book, slowly focus on his writing and write them down.

I found a specialised optician who we saw every 2 weeks who gave him exercises to do daily and six months in it was making a difference and a year in he was so much better.

So what I would suggest:

Check the obvious things first.
Get an eye test.
Get a hearing test.

Then, if both of those are ok, try for an assessment with an educational psychologist.

Some schools buy in time with an educational psych so you may be able to get her seen through school. If not, it will be private, and that does cost money.

If you can't afford that, try to get a tutor for maths and English with experience of kids with SEN/kids with low attainment.

Oh, and she will find homework easier because in primary the teacher often sets several different homeworks depending on ability.

The tests, however, are for the whole class.

Same at secondary - the bottom set teacher will set homework based on the topics in class eg addition - but the homework for bottom set will be adding 2 digit numbers and the homework for top set will be solving very complicated addition problems.

The test will be for the whole year group.

as an ex primatu teacher I would bakc what others have said, you need a full broad assessment that covers everything.

You will need to PUSH HARD to get this through school. Don't be timid, don't be put off by teachers saying wait and see, but really advocate for your child. Be polite but pushy.

Ask for appoitment with SENCO. Talk about problems all through primary and that she was doing well in homework and so badly in tests.

See what school will offer. If not, ask school if they will accept a private assessment. Pay to go private, by try and do it with an organisation that school will accept.

Given the extent of the issues here in your shoes Op I would start getting pushy with the school right now on getting her properly assessed. Don’t accept an answer of wait and see, don’t wait for parents evening and then wait to speak to SENCO. Action it now. It seems highly likely there is some underlying issue that hasn’t been properly addressed and the longer this remains so, the bigger the gap will grow between where she is and where she could be.

Of course be polite to everyone but I would be firm and unwavering in pushing for her issues being identified.

Some posts resonated with me.

She had hearing issues before the age of 5 but those went away. I'll get them checked again. Eyes were last checked in year3 and there were no issues.

I'll do the eyes and ears again. Thank you for the reminder.

I have to admit, I ended up pushing really hard in years 4 and 5 and I think it affected DD confidence because she didn't like knowing I was worried or upset about anything to do with her.
The push was how I eventually got the initial assessment.

We did get something a bit more than a dyslexia screening but it isn't specifically called ed psych. It is called a "full diagnostic assessment". And the bottom line is that she has a spiky profile.
There are entries about long term and short term memory and types of verbal reasonings that she can't do. And requirements for multi sensory teaching.

The teachers who thought "it'll be fine in the end" see me as a tiger mum and the others see me as too disconnected...
I have so many "excuses" not to want to put any more energy into this...

That said she hasn't given up and it seems like it's not uncommon.
even if she doesn't end up with good results, at least we'd both know we never gave up.

After an assessment (private if needs be) I would get private one-to-one tutors for English and Maths if you can afford it. One session a week for each.

She definitely needs a lot more help with her English and maths.

I'm surprised alarm bells weren't ringing when she didn't read til she was in Year 5.

As above she needs a full Ed Psych assessment.

No one wants to throw around diagnoses, but I would want ADHD/ Autism rules out. And if they were not present I think she probably has some kind of learning disability.

School should be doing much more. And keep getting in touch with the senco. Sometimes if you child isn't ' misbehaving ' they can be overlooked.

So if she is quiet and not disrupting the class she may not have had as many interventions as she would have otherwise.

I know the kind of assessment you mean.

My DS also had a similar one. They need translating generally into actual English so that you can understand what the issue is.

If they were talking about spiky profile then it means she was very good at some stuff and much less good at others.

This does tend to produce issues in the classroom. (Again, my DS had a spiky profile).

Did anyone explain the report to you and explain what she needed as a result?

Yes i got a phone call and went over the results with the primary school senco. Apparently she can't learn by rote and needs tactile/ multi sensory support. The other takeaway was she needed to learn to type. She really didn't seem to need much.
It really did seem to be a case of "she'll be fine in secondary" but lo and behold, she isn't.

I think now that she's done a term in secondary it might be time to sit with the senco to find out how they apply the findings. To be fair i don't know any details on how they are using the report. All I know is that they have used it as input to her learning this year.

If they said that she needs to learn to type them she probably has problems with handwriting.

My son had a laptop and he typed in pretty much all his lessons except maths.

We used nessy to help him learn to type as it's good for kids with problems learning.

He was also able to use the laptop in his gcse exams as it was his normally way of working.

The Senco also got him to try dragon dictate which is where you talk at the computer and it types what you say but he really struggled to keep focus and work out what he wanted to say.

Nessy:

www.nessy.com/en-us/product/nessy-fingers-touch-typing-home

It's understandable that you're concerned about your daughter's challenges despite her potential. It's crucial to approach these situations with patience and a focus on understanding her unique learning style. Some thoughts and suggestions:

1. *Learning Style:* Explore different learning styles to identify what suits her best—visual, auditory, kinesthetic, etc. Tailoring approaches to her strengths can make a significant difference.

1. *Multisensory Approaches:* Consider using multisensory techniques for learning, especially in subjects like spelling and language. These can include tactile activities, visual aids, and interactive learning tools.

1. *Professional Assessment:* If not done already, consider seeking assessments from specialists in areas like educational psychology or occupational therapy. These professionals can provide a more comprehensive understanding of her strengths and challenges.

1. *Youngest in the Class:* Being the youngest can sometimes impact a child's development, especially in coordination and fine motor skills. However, it's essential to consider her as an individual and explore a variety of support strategies.

1. *Positive Reinforcement:* Celebrate her strengths and achievements in areas like sports, music, and persistence. Building confidence in these areas may positively influence her approach to challenging subjects.

1. *Emotional Well-being:* Monitor her emotional well-being and provide emotional support. A positive mindset can contribute to a more open and resilient approach to learning.

1. *Specialized Tutoring:* Consider exploring tutoring options that specialize in her specific learning challenges. Sometimes, individualized attention can make a significant impact.

Remember, every child is unique, and the learning journey can vary widely. Continue to collaborate with educators, specialists, and support professionals to create a holistic approach to her education and well-being.

Hi OP,

I was one of those kids who struggled right through school and then clicked right in time for my university entrance exams. I did brilliantly in university and then crashed and burned right after that and life has been a constant struggle ever since.

So far I have a diagnosis of ASD, convergence insufficiency (eyes), anxiety disorder, IBS.

I think a full assessment would be a very good idea if you can find a way to do it. It would have saved me years of struggle if people had actually done something about me.

If she's in Year 7 you've got time.

From what you've posted it just seems like the Primary was dragging its heels. And now the same at Secondary.

You don't want to get to Year 11 and finally get predicted grades and its a huge surprise.

Try and get as much sorted for her at a younger age.

I wouldn't accept any reassurances that eventually everything will click into place. She needs an assessment.

When you mention the "homework which she does by herself in Maths" is that handwritten work that she's set, or a software app?

I also note the advice that she "learn to type".

You also mention that she likes to watch art videos on Youtube. Have you asked her why she enjoys watching these?

I've no expertise in this at all, but reading this I see lots of references to things which do seem to help your DD learn/access information.

Homework is done on an app.

But the exams are also done on computers.
I think the poster who said homework might have different levels to the tests might be right.
That's something I'm checking with school.

She does retain some things. She seems quite bright on the outside but it doesn't translate into any "activity"... I'm guessing that's what spiky profiles look like.

You need yo push and push hard. Email teacher and Senco and ask for an urgent meeting. Do it in an email, rather than phone, so it's in writing, it's traceable, there's a 'paper trail' rather than on the phone. Ask when the assessments are going to be done. She may have processing issues and might need more time in exams. Sort this all now so it's recorded clearly before The start of GCSE's in year 10.

Also, the fact is most support doesn't actually cost them that much and you don't need an EP report, or any professional report, to put support in place . (Politely) Ask why support isn't being put in place already!

spiky profile.
There are entries about long term and short term memory and types of verbal reasonings that she can't do.

So she's had an assesment. So why aren't you following up with Senco that the assesment report advice isn't being followed. That the support has not been put in place.

You really need to start being more proactive. Write an email to Senco. Attach old reports. Tell her she's failing, crying, and where is the schools duty of care, for support that should already be in place.

And where's the Senco annual review? Why isn't she in contact with you and having meetings with you?

You really need to take a firmer line, pull up your big girl pants and address the Senco full on !

It seems odd that she gets all of the answers right in her homework. You say she does her homework at school - could she be getting help from friends?