Anyone get their child out of playing rugby? (head injury concern)

[BarqsHasBite]

Just that really - am determined that when my son moves to secondary (we are hoping to send him to an independent school) that he does not play any contact rugby, or head the ball in football though that’s less of an issue as he can just not head when he’s playing.

Has anyone tried to get their child out of playing rugby for the same reason? I’m sure someone told me that some schools have it in the parental contract that the boys will play rugby and it’s a condition of accepting a place at the school 😱

If I get pushback am hoping to find a neurologist to advise against playing rugby - is the school really going to insist on going against medical advice?
But interested to know if anyone has any experience of this.

The issue is that brain injuries may not show up for years ir decades. The cumulative effect of multiple bangs to the head can be devastating later in life. Who'd want their kid to get dementia in their 40s or 50s due to a game?

I had a medical note from my doctor when I was in school, then years later my dc also was excused, differant condition but unable to play contact sports. I don't think it would be legal to for anybody in charge of minors, to reject a doctors advice.

My DS and his mates play at a club. Small groups. Highly experienced coaches. Strict protocols. The less committed drop out age 7-11 so by age 132 and Yr7 it's only those that want to play but also listen & follow rules.
Our state school has a team but only those who play at clubs and a local club coach comes in.
I'd be wary about school rugby at private schools run by rusty PE teachers with large volumes of kids that have never played before. That's a recipe for injuries

@eurotravel My experience of club v school was quite the opposite.

Club teams coached by volunteers, often parents, who were influenced by the kids wanting as much 'game time' and contact as possible with far less time spent securing basic skills and techniques. School coaches better qualified and more safety conscious - concussion protocol followed to the letter, focus on discipline and technique, lots of no contact drills.

I think it boils down to the same thing though. Rugby is potentially a dangerous sport with serious injury possible. The coaching makes a massive difference - coaches need to know their players well, be prepared to limit contact time, focus on safety and come down hard on players who think it's a 'free for all'.

There's also a challenge when young people play for school and club and where there is little rest and recovery time. In my opinion not enough is done to ensure that contact time across the week stays within RFU guidelines.

I get that. We are lucky. Our coaches are volunteers but played at a high level & their own kids play so they are actually very strict safety wise. Any knock to head and they are off. Any silly messing about and they are off.
But I agree about the amount of time playing - some are 4/5 times a week if at a rugby school then club etc

I've worked in rugby schools since qualifying in 2002. I have genuinely seen more injuries (of all sorts) from football and skiing than rugby.
Schools rugby is ahead of the professional game in the care they take over players (still some concussions not taken seriously at the international level!). We've been involved in the research around it and there is a stage introduction of full contact rugby.
I'm far more concerned with lunchtime kicks outs where apparently it's essential to head the ball. I tell them not to but 'it just happened miss!'
I think rugby is great but neither of my children are interested at the moment (I think my son would be good on the wing but he prefers just running).
Even in a rugby school though it's rarely the only option and those less interested tend to play tag rugby instead anyway. Speak to the school and see what their arrangements are (and ask for more detail on how they coach in case that eases your concerns).

I'd be wary about school rugby at private schools run by rusty PE teachers with large volumes of kids that have never played before. That's a recipe for injuries

😂😂 DSs' school coaches included a former England International who is currently coaching a professional team. I'm not sure why you think private schools would have worse coaches than state schools.

I don't @SoupDragon but there are far more private 'rugby schools' than state for a million reasons. It's still a largely middle class sport in most areas. In our area it's only private schools where all boys have to play rugby in Autumn term. Football doesn't get played until after Xmas and then cricket in summer term etc
All the state schools do the more widely popular sports like football & basketball that are less risky to coach esp when behaviour poorer. No state primary I've ever known of does anything other than tag,

It's also true @SoupDragon that much fewer state school pupils would even eg have kids with rugby boots. At ours they have to lend them out to the kids that don't play for a club. Out of 150 lads only 12 play rugby at all in our Yr7

But isn’t this all just about helping facilitate what is basically a really bad idea for young bodies?

Discussion of different types of coaches is dancing on the head of a pin. Yes, it makes some difference but the injury doesn’t come from the coach, it comes from the game.

The problem you have op is that sending your child to a private school is an elective decision, therefore they can simply say, go elsewhere. Whether they opt for this is down to whether they allow choice and mostly down to their finances - oversubscribed schools are likely to tell you to go elsewhere, whereas if they aren't full they might be willing to work with you. My dd plays semi pro, yes I'm worried but if you knew her you would realise you can't stop her

Dd played in state school

Both my kids love rugby. We've had broken bones, concussions, but the joy they've got from it both on and off the pitch makes up for the small risk of anything long term happening.

Is it the running into others that they enjoy or do you suspect they might enjoy a non-contact sport instead?

I have two uncles who are now wheelchair bound because of old sport injuries to knees and backs. One of them played two sports at university and county level, the other at county but not university. Both are otherwise healthy. Both need assistance getting from wheelchair to loo, etc. Their earlier lives were certainly more fun than their lives are now.

I note you say "concussions" and I urge you not to be so blase about the injuries, and to question the culture of casual acceptance of broken bones and brain injuries surrounding rugby.

There's middle class camaraderie to be found in rowing, lacrosse, cricket, and marathon running, if off the field fun is what attracts them too.

They might do this, but that’s where my plan B would come in, and I get a neurologist (and I’m fairly confident I could find one) to say something along the lines of “It is my professional opinion that there are significant risks of brain and spinal injury from playing contact rugby and as such I have advised Master Barq’s parents that he should not play.”
I think it’s fairly unlikely in those circumstances that they tell us he has to play rugby or sling his proverbial hook.

It's dangerous- brain injury, severe injury. Any neurologist will agree with that. So is : horse riding, motorbike riding, boxing. It's in that category

Op
I absolutely would keep my feelings on rugby to myself until he has a place. In a die hard rugby school they will absolutely be afraid that you will be spreading your views on rugby to other parents and you absolutely won't be thanked for it: ( regardless of what assurances you give them)
Around me you'd quick every quickly find yourself on the bottom the list if you made your feelings on rugby clear before you started.

@RhymesWithTangerine the coaching standard once you get to contact rugby is very important as they need to pull out kids immediately who play dangerously & teach them what's acceptable. My DS plays and I only allow him to continue as his coaches are very strict. Playing with inexperienced players who tackle wrongly etc is where I've seen issues.

I also know of a child who had a 'neck stroke' during a scrum which led to lifelong problems.

But isn’t this like saying you need a good referee for a boxing match?

OK, sure. But the issue is the boxing match - or in this case the rugby. The problem is the physical nature of the sport and level of risk.

I understand why parents focus on the coaches - it gives them control and reassurance - but this is still about lads running at each other. It’s a coping strategy. Same as the ‘I know of tennis/skiing/football injuries’. It’s just coping. Rugby is week in week out risk.

I don't disagree that rugby is higher risk than other sports but the environment does make a big difference. Same as it does at football.
Some divisions / leagues are calm and safe but some are full of idiot parents & coaches who encourage physical pushing, fouling and abuse, leading to high injury rates.

I have two DS at a major rugby playing school. They all played for the first term then everything became optional. And after that they stopped rugby- not at our insistence, but we were glad to agree. Fwiw, the school took safety v seriously, so anyone who took a knock was treated in full as for concussion- no chances taken. But some classmates have taken fairly ugly injuries, particularly those in the higher teams. I think one problem with school rugby is it's played by age rather than size, which in early teens gives rise to mismatched contests.
You aren't being overprotective in not wanting your son to play rugby, @BarqsHasBite it's one of those sports where attitudes are rapidly changing as the evidence stacks up.

DD goes to a (private) school that is very sporty and known for its rugby but at the start of her first term, parents were issued with an opt-out list of all sports, including rugby. If you ticked any of them, your kid was out of that sport, no quibbles.

Same if the child doesn't want to do a particular sport. DD didn't want to do hockey - fine, they'd rather she do something she enjoys.

Rugby is really risky both in the short-term and the long-term. I've got a friend who is an A&E doctor - a very chilled and easy-going parent - anything goes. Except rugby that is. No way her boys are ever getting near that.

It would be great if accurate data was available for injuries v participation in sports. I've not seen any recently

UPDATE if anyone is interested…
Despite it being half term the head of PE sent a long and thoughtful reply to my query about whether contact rugby is compulsory at any stage, enclosing some information about the school’s approach and ensuring the game is played as safely as possible.

Fortunately contact rugby is not compulsory: while all boys have to play rugby in the autumn term of Y7, they can chose touch rugby or contact rugby, and there are competitive fixtures for both. From Y8 onwards they have more of a choice of sports.

Am so pleased (and relieved as I think you were right to query whether I should raise it now @Crazycrazylady or whether I risked blacklisting my son).

That’s a good outcome @BarqsHasBite . I have been following this as Ds is at a state grammar that is doing compulsory full contact rugby and he hates it. It’s assault as far as he is concerned.