GCSE "compulsory" subject. DS doesn't want to do it.

[sugarhopper]

DS is in top set for French at school. School says that if you are in the top set in year 9 then you HAVE to take French as one of your GCSE choices.

Now, while DS is good at it, he doesn't like or enjoy it. Top set of any other subject aren't forced into a GCSE, only the MFL classes.
Also doing French will mean he will have to drop one of his other options (probably Design & Tech or Computing) which he really wants to do. (Also, top set for these subjects)
I know we're going to have a fight on our hands over this, but any advice will be welcome.

I think you need to clarify by what you mean by compulsory, as you've said that French is and is not a compulsory subject

It's perfectly clear. This school say it's compulsory for kids currently in their top French set to take French gcse.

I think it’s quite clear tbh; the op means the govt says all students need to continue with maths, Eng and science to GCSE level; the op’s school says French is also compulsory for a discrete group - including her son. So it’s the school she has an argument with.

But surely that's not the school's decision to take?
"Compulsory" is set by the national curriculum, i.e. Eng/Maths/Science, etc. (it wasn't that long ago that I found out that all science subjects are now mandatory: thought it was just one, including computing!)

See now, this is my point.
There is "Government Compulsory", which they've all got to do. Fine. Ok, some might not like Maths/English/Science, however if Rishi and co say it's got to be done, it's got to be done.
As I mentioned, my older DC's went to a faith school. RE was "School Compulsory" for all students at GCSE. We knew this when we signed them up. One of my DC's had a bit of an issue but had to suck it up. It was a condition of being at the (quite excellent) school.
There was no such mention of this when I sent DS to this school, which again is my only option now locally.
It's not compulsory for all students, only a select few. I dare say that plenty of kids will want to take the language option for GCSE. And that a lot of those won't be "top set".

My problem is that my DS, while he seems to be naturally quite good at the subject does not want to carry on with it. I think that should be his choice to make.
I just need the right words to say to school, other than Hey you can stick your French GCSE up your arse, the kids doing Design/IT/whatever instead. (and NO I'm not actually going to say that, before someone else calls me ridiculous)
I think the school thinks that parents here won't really question or argue when it comes to this sort of thing. They seem to think that what they say is final, and don't seem up for a discussion (from what I hear anyway).

Some schools go down/force pupils to go down the Ebacc route, Progress 8 subjects etc as they are judged on it in the results tables.

If a school does badly in these, particularly if the have good neighbouring schools then they're stuffed.

Option setups can be pupil centred or results centred. It's a good, but brave school that feels able to go down the former route.

Many schools' other problems are the recruitment of properly qualified teachers.

In my latter years of teaching I taught, admittedly, to Yr7 + 8, Maths, English for the odd period/week, IT and RE.

My main, qualified, subject was technology/electronics.

I am a senior software engineer. GCSE and A Level computing is useless and may do more harm than good as often teaches incorrect coding practices. He’s better off taking French, and in his free time, getting a Full Stack IBM professional certificate. That will mean he’ll get to work as a coder / developer at uni while studying and earn a bit of extra cash.

how many GCSEs do they do at this school. If gcse English x2, science x2, maths and french are compulsory for top set that’s 6 and could leave 2, 3 or 4 options depending on if your school sits 8,9, or 10 GCSEs. I’d so can he not choose to do DT and computer science? Or are there other subjects he is choosing as well?

nb my DDs school make the top 2 sets do French.

DC school makes almost everyone do a MFL. I really don’t see a problem with it.

"the school thinks that parents here won't really question or argue when it comes to this sort of thing. They seem to think that what they say is final, and don't seem up for a discussion (from what I hear anyway)."

It's not Amazon. They don't have to please the customer. You can't go anywhere else anyway, apparently. It's quite likely they do, correctly, think that whatever they say is final.

If you approach it more as them doing you a favour, rather than you stamping your feet and making a fuss about 'your rights' (hyperbolic), you may have better luck.

Yes this school seems quite light touch about Ebacc. I suppose for you OP it feels more unfair because most students don't have this particular constraint.

We were used to option blocks so to me, restrictions like needing to do a humanity and a MFL seem a small price to pay for an otherwise completely unconstrained choice. But I do think you'll get your way OP.

I dont think thats true. GCSE's apart from English and Maths don't make any difference to anything apart from your ability to get onto an A Level course. He doesnt want to do French A Level. He wants to do computing. The Computing gcse will get him onto the computing course. Being fluent in a language is useful, so that can ge kept up if he has an aptitude for it.

The school does make the policies and take the decisions. They think this because it is true. You do of course have the right to ask them for a change but they do not have to accommodate this. You are of course free to move him to another school.

But surely that's not the school's decision to take?

Yes it is. Schools can choose to make subjects compulsory which are not nationally compulsory.

the school thinks that parents here won't really question or argue when it comes to this sort of thing. They seem to think that what they say is final,

What they say is final. You can question it, but they don't have to do what you want.

Computer science is also an ebac subject. This can be used in your arguement for him to drop french as it definitely for their ebac results

Computer science is definitely not a soft subject. It is extremely challenging and one of the most difficult to pass. It's on a par with physics

Computer science is an EBacc qualifying subject within the Science domain if a school offers single sciences. So you could count computer science instead of say, Biology, but you can't use it to replace a MFL (or English or History/Geography come to that.)

Most computer science university courses will prefer a student with an A in physics over one with an A in Computer Science BECAUSE the A Level / GCSE is so useless. Professional courses, even free ones, give you more respect.

It depends on what you're calling "EBacc" here - for the English Baccalaureate it can't replace a language. But for Progress 8 and Attainment 8, it can fill a space in the 'Ebacc Bucket'.

In her post on 8/10 at 19.20, OP says "French is not a compulsory subject. It was not in the prospectus as being a compulsory subject."

Which is why I asked her to clarify what she meant by compulsory.

See above. It's not because OP has said "French is not a compulsory subject. It was not in the prospectus as being a compulsory subject."

I think everyone should study one MFL to GSCE. If your DS would be more likely to enjoy and especially use German beyond school, then you should argue for that.

My sister was put down for a language that would have been of little use to her, and my parents successfully argued for one that was the mother tongue of one of my grandparents and where an aunt lived at the time.

Most computer science university courses will prefer a student with an A in physics over one with an A in Computer Science BECAUSE the A Level / GCSE is so useless.

Is that really still the case? I thought that CS/computing wasn't particularly well regarded in the past but had been much improved since the last set of reforms. Not sure there would be much in entrance requirements for good CS courses to support your assertion.

Hi OP, This is an interesting thread and I am sorry your DS has this predicament.

I would suggest focusing the argument on a) DS is an able and conscientious student who is good at most subjects (and so worthy of being given some flex to help achieving his specific aims and goals) and b) that taking French GCSE may well preclude him being able to take CS and DT GCSEs, both of which would provide excellent foundations for his aspirations in relation to CS, engineering or a combination of the two.

Emphasise that you understand that the policy of compulsory French GCSE for the top set is, in part, to assist able students maintain a breadth of GCSE subjects and that this is particularly helpful for those students without a clear view of their future route. However, you are asking for an exception to be made to facilitate your DS in his credible, worthy and already well-thought through career ambitions.

Do not say that you do not want your DS to have to take a subject they are not interested in; that will be a red rag to a bull. Essentially you need to marshall arguments that make it easier for the school to make an exception, as there will be a reluctance to go down that route as it means dealing with others saying 'well, Sugar's DS got to drop French'.

Obviously if they still say no (and there is a high chance they might), then - and only then - you could consider going down the route of attacking the policy. Again, this should focus on the fact that the interests of the student are not necessarily sensibly accommodated if the school's policy (which is not flagged on admission) is rigidly enforced.