Page 5 | GCSE "compulsory" subject. DS doesn't want to do it.

sugarhopper · 2023-10-04T19:57:33+00:00

DS is in top set for French at school. School says that if you are in the top set in year 9 then you HAVE to take French as one of your GCSE choices. Now, while DS is good at it, he doesn't like or enjoy it. Top set of any other subject aren't forced into a GCSE, only the MFL classes. Also doing French will mean he will have to drop one of his other options (probably Design & Tech or Computing) which he really wants to do. (Also, top set for these subjects) I know we're going to have a fight on our hands over this, but any advice will be welcome.

Boredpanda88 · 05/10/2023 03:00

I have to say I was in the same situation with my daughter had to go the ebacc route, as the schools target was 100% ebacc my child was able to choose between history or geography and one other option from art, dt, computing, food tech, business studies and p.e can’t remember the other couple but she literally had the choice of one option.
School wouldn’t budge last October school realised that over half the kids they had forced to take French weren’t going to pass, so shoved them into gcse statistics instead.
Fast forward to results day this year it backfired on them my daughter failed French thereby no getting the ebacc marks anyway for their stupid league tables which is all they cared about
She did manage a grade 8 in dt the one option she was allowed to pick amd
it was a very heavy subject the amount of coursework was crazy definitely not “cutting up bit of wood” lol

SiobahnRoy · 05/10/2023 04:40

DfE are pushing Ebacc so schools have to, it’s been announced this week that it’s going to be pushed even more, impacting the current y11 cohort 🤔 so don’t blame the school, blame Nick Gibb and this bonkers government.

GCSE "compulsory" subject. DS doesn't want to do it.

Toansweraboutfees · 05/10/2023 05:47

This is a great life lesson for him for the long term. Sometimes non disruptive, targeted rebellion is needed against the crazy policies of large institutions.

I just read a thread about someone who is being told they have to work evenings for half the post of other members of the team. Everyone on that thread is asking why op is such a pushover.

Don't let him turn into a pushover. I tell my kids that us adults can open doors to opportunities for them but they can choose which doors they walk through everyday at school. I then explain prioritisation and what really matters for their future.

He shouldn't be disruptive in class. But he should do the absolute minimum in French from now on, including not answering in tests. You should back him to do this.

And practice lines he can give teachers. Something like 'French is not a priority subject for me, I am choosing to put my energy into other studies, you are welcome to speak to my parent about this or move me down a set as a result.

TheCurtainQueen · 05/10/2023 06:23

What nonsense is this? Computing is infinitely more “useful” than French.

Put your foot down OP, your son absolutely shouldn’t have to do French at the expense of a subject that he wants to study to a higher level (and that will likely lead to a very well paid job).

partypant · 05/10/2023 06:35

Lamelie · 04/10/2023 21:01

What does he want to do?
GCSE French is more useful and better thought of than computing. Not doing computing won’t close any doors to him. Not doing GCSE French would.

If by computing she means computer science then I'll have to respectfully disagree. Computer science is way more sought after than French. Added to which any STEM degree will benefit from him knowing how to code. French will do diddly squat

partypant · 05/10/2023 06:40

@Lamelie And you could learn those skills in an afternoon. We all use IT.
OP if he wants to work in computing he could still do A Level Computing. Although maths, sciences and humanities would be even better.

You are stuck in the dark ages. Did you not read the post where OP states he wants to do computer engineering. If he wants to do CompSci at a-level his French ain't going to help him.

You seem to not realise CompSci is one of the toughest courses to get into at uni. But maybe you are so brilliant you could learn it all in a week at summer camp eh?

CancertheCrab · 05/10/2023 06:41

HeathrowQuestion · 04/10/2023 23:19

They cannot make him do a GCSE he doesn’t want to do. what are they going to do -exclude him for not taking French? I don’t think so.

Just go to the head of year and say he won’t be doing it and to please programme him for computer science. It can’t be a timetabling issue if this is only imposed on the highest-attaining pupils. It must be about league table position. if it were a timetabling issue I’d have all the sympathy but it really isn’t in this case, it’s about performance measures.

throw around a few buzzwords like centering the child, meeting the gatsby career benchmarks and facilitating progression or some such ;)

It is not a "timetabling" issue, it is a staffing issue - the school makes the offer it can staff. All out students now take a language, because we don't have the staff to offer triple science

partypant · 05/10/2023 06:43

@TrailingLoellia @Lamelie
I know that careers in computing coding etc. are little to do with what’s covered in GCSE computing. The young graduates I know in tech and coding on £50,000/ year (not mine, this isn’t a brag) did broad GCSEs including languages, then Maths/ economics degrees. You know those threads on private schooling and middle class soft skills? This thread encapsulates it.

That is so odd because usually coders today have computer science degrees not economics or maths degrees. Some coders did have math degrees, but they are not young graduates anymore, they are in their late 30s/40s.

@Lamelie has no idea what they are talking about. I don't think they know what CompSci is 🫣

FedUpWithBriiiiick · 05/10/2023 06:44

I think the point about further education access is important to remember.

To attend any university in Ireland, you must have a modern language GCSE.

partypant · 05/10/2023 06:47

@Lamelie Don’t do GCSE language= no A Level language, no getting by skills travelling there, no ebac. Fewer opportunities to pick up a language via short course at university. Lots of aptitude tests for careers are vocabulary based, so any knowledge of any language puts you at an advantage.
Don’t do GCSE computing = nothing closed to you. You can still do A Level computing and onwards for a career in computing or coding.

🤣🤣🤣but he's not going to do French a-level. He's going to do subjects that enable him to get into CompSci which will be maths, further maths, CompSci, physics

CancertheCrab · 05/10/2023 06:48

partypant · 05/10/2023 06:43

@TrailingLoellia @Lamelie
I know that careers in computing coding etc. are little to do with what’s covered in GCSE computing. The young graduates I know in tech and coding on £50,000/ year (not mine, this isn’t a brag) did broad GCSEs including languages, then Maths/ economics degrees. You know those threads on private schooling and middle class soft skills? This thread encapsulates it.

That is so odd because usually coders today have computer science degrees not economics or maths degrees. Some coders did have math degrees, but they are not young graduates anymore, they are in their late 30s/40s.

@Lamelie has no idea what they are talking about. I don't think they know what CompSci is 🫣

I have two children coders in their early 20s earning more money on their first day after graduating than I have earnt in my whole career as a teacher!

Neither ever did any computer science or ICT at GCSE or before, they are physics graduates

androidnotapple · 05/10/2023 06:48

I think one modern foreign language at GCSE is on the national curriculum, isn't it?

searchinglookingforlove · 05/10/2023 06:57

Lamelie · 04/10/2023 21:01

What does he want to do?
GCSE French is more useful and better thought of than computing. Not doing computing won’t close any doors to him. Not doing GCSE French would.

What doors is not doing French going to close if the child has no interest in French?!

This thread scares me. My DC is in yr9. Hates French, is pretty bad at it and can't wait to drop it. If his school are forced to go the Ebacc route then he'll most certainly fail one of his GCSEs plus miss out on doing a subject that he likes and is good at.

JustWhatWeDontNeed · 05/10/2023 07:02

androidnotapple · 05/10/2023 06:48

I think one modern foreign language at GCSE is on the national curriculum, isn't it?

It's not compulsory. Ours were forced to choose between Geography or History, but language was thankfully optional. If they'd been forced then there'd be 2x guaranteed U grades incoming.

JustWhatWeDontNeed · 05/10/2023 07:05

searchinglookingforlove · 05/10/2023 06:57

What doors is not doing French going to close if the child has no interest in French?!

This thread scares me. My DC is in yr9. Hates French, is pretty bad at it and can't wait to drop it. If his school are forced to go the Ebacc route then he'll most certainly fail one of his GCSEs plus miss out on doing a subject that he likes and is good at.

Show quote history

Have a look on the school website. Ours has a link to their GCSE options presentation/blurb, so you should be able to see what the usual set up is.

Ours had a few different pathways, including the baccalaureate.

DibbleDooDah · 05/10/2023 07:09

So many people talking about doors closing and what’s useful and what’s not, when the point is surely him being forced into taking a subject he really doesn’t want to.

My DC is at a private school. In Y7 and Y8 they study two European languages and Latin. In Y9 they can drop one. In Y10 they can study whatever subjects they like (3 or 4 subjects depending on whether they take combined or separate sciences).

They encourage taking a language. They encourage keeping things broad based. If you chose dance, drama, art and DT then there would be discussion around workload, closing doors and be firmly encouraged to swap a few choices. Ultimately though they would much rather you do the subjects you love and get top grades in those.

No university requires the EBACC. There are no curriculum rules making a language compulsory. It’s either a timetabling or school pride thing. Universities look at your top eight GCSE grades sat at the same time (including Oxbridge) and that’s it!!

My DC has dropped all languages. They are very good at them but they took up a huge amount of their time. They are doing both computer science and DT at GCSE and loving it.

CancertheCrab · 05/10/2023 07:09

androidnotapple · 05/10/2023 06:48

I think one modern foreign language at GCSE is on the national curriculum, isn't it?

yes, it is normal for this to be non negotiable, if the school has the staff

Jifmicroliquid · 05/10/2023 07:09

Sorry, this should have been in reply to the person who thinks computing isn’t good to have!

What planet are you living on? Computing isn’t ICT, it’s coding and computer systems.
This looks amazing on a CV, far better than French!

partypant · 05/10/2023 07:12

@CancertheCrab I have two children coders in their early 20s earning more money on their first day after graduating than I have earnt in my whole career as a teacher!

Neither ever did any computer science or ICT at GCSE or before, they are physics graduates

Physics is indeed one route to coding but the more competitive route is to take a maths or CompSci degree. Both of which are extremely competitive to get into at good unis and the vast majority will have maths further maths physics and comp sci to get into a CompSci degree. The entry requirements will probably say just maths and further maths but the students applying with generally gave the subjects listed above and it will therefore be risking not getting any offers if a student applied without them. French? Haha. No computer engineering course is going to care. All subjects are valuable. Art. Music. History, Spanish... but not having them won't weaken one's chances of getting into CompSci/engineering. Not having CompSci a-level may or may not. But it certainly will make the degree course easier if you have a background knowledge of CompSci going in

CancertheCrab · 05/10/2023 07:15

partypant · 05/10/2023 07:12

@CancertheCrab I have two children coders in their early 20s earning more money on their first day after graduating than I have earnt in my whole career as a teacher!

Neither ever did any computer science or ICT at GCSE or before, they are physics graduates

Physics is indeed one route to coding but the more competitive route is to take a maths or CompSci degree. Both of which are extremely competitive to get into at good unis and the vast majority will have maths further maths physics and comp sci to get into a CompSci degree. The entry requirements will probably say just maths and further maths but the students applying with generally gave the subjects listed above and it will therefore be risking not getting any offers if a student applied without them. French? Haha. No computer engineering course is going to care. All subjects are valuable. Art. Music. History, Spanish... but not having them won't weaken one's chances of getting into CompSci/engineering. Not having CompSci a-level may or may not. But it certainly will make the degree course easier if you have a background knowledge of CompSci going in

That makes no sense

Why go the more competitive route if there are easier, less competitive routes?

SellFridges · 05/10/2023 07:39

I would imagine even if he were able to drop French, he wouldn’t be able to include one of his preferred options. A lot of GCSE choice is actually restricted by timetabling.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/10/2023 07:42

shockeditellyou · 04/10/2023 21:22

I think this is because the school want to look good in the Ebacc results- pupils only hit the Ebacc target if they do a MFL.

like a PP said, time to fail a few exams.

Nah, computing is also in the Ebacc bucket.

It would be fine from that point of view.

SiobahnRoy · 05/10/2023 07:51

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/10/2023 07:42

Nah, computing is also in the Ebacc bucket.

It would be fine from that point of view.

Show quote history

Computing isn’t an alternative for mfl in the Ebacc bucket. Schools now being pushed to hit the Ebacc criteria, which requires a foreign language. See earlier post, it’s driven by government not schools.

gotomomo · 05/10/2023 07:56

At least until recently a language was semi compulsory to get into good universities on popular courses, they wanted to see a spread of subjects including a humanities subject,language, at least double science and obviously maths and double English

TwigTheWonderKid · 05/10/2023 08:04

This is exactly what happened to my son although at his his school it was not just the top set but anyone they thought might pass who was forced down this route. My son struggled with the language and there were two other equally "serious" subjects he would have preferred to study.

I fought for months on his behalf but as a governor of the school I knew it was futile: it was all about the eBacc figures.

Sadly, my son failed German (because it turned out he was dyslexic) so he wasn't able to contribute to their eBacc score. Luckily he's just started his degree and having to put down a failed GCSE on his UCAS form hasn't had any impact on his future studies, but it still makes me so angry when I think about it.