SW London Grammar and Private year 7 entry 2024

[lolo99]

Not sure if this thread has been started but if not, I would like to share experiences, tips and generally talk about schools and their pros and cons and processes to ease the anxiety and pain for us parents :)

@farfallarocks , computer and paper exams mix that some schools already do?

These are indepedent schools, many want to distinguish themself in the selection process, also weighted school reports does not favor state school students.

I completely agree. But the issue is that there's no motivation on the part of the senior schools to devise a better system. Some want their own bespoke process because they don't trust a centralised one as a PP mentioned. Some want multiple rounds, others think an online test and an interview is sufficient. And given it's a largely unregulated process, there's little impetus to change.

On the other hand, I think those schools in the top ranking tables, who cream off the most academic students, will be less affected by incidents of duplicated questions, regardless the exam providers or number of rounds in the exam, because the impact on the total performance will be marginal.

It probably have some more impact on the mid range schools that takes a wider range selective abilities.

Apply for 5 schools max with a preference system?

I like the preference idea. I do think at the moment it is a big problem that schools don’t know whether they are the preferred option. So let’s say 4 kids W X Y Z apply to the same schools and are all pretty equal academically and otherwise… it could easily happen that school A gives offers to candidates W and X who would actually prefer school B, while school B makes offers to candidates Y and Z who really wanted school A… a shame for everyone including the schools.

Hi ,

anyone waiting on Ibstock place email for eventual second round ? What time do you think they will send it to parents?

thanks

Independent schools will never be cooperative like that, some are competitive rivals, some for league table reasons, and other reasons.

The mismatch of preference/ability is currently managed by the schools over offering multiple times based on recent intake data and also tight waiting list chasing. Work quite well for some schools.

I think the issue is that the impact on schools is different to the impact on individuals and hence there are different incentives to question the system.

On the schools' front I tend to agree with you, but it will depend on the extent to which the questions are the same (if some 1/3 or more of questions are the same, surely the advantage is more than marginal) and/or the range of abilities in the cohort of applicants. If all applicants are quite similar and not many questions are the same, the impact on the school is not very big (although massive on the individuals). But taking into account that top schools will have some applicants for which the school is quite aspirational and that people seem to be talking about quite a number of questions being the same, even top schools might see a marked difference. Or at least, might have enough grounds to want to investigate.

And, of course, the impact on any individual could be massive. I don't have a DC going through the process this year but, if so did and this had happened, I would be indeed asking questions are others are doing.

I would be very cautious about the assertion that identical questions appear from other exams while the consortium exam is not over yet (there are two more sessions left).
Our experience on Atom shows that many questions seem very similar, even with the same numbers, but there are slight differences that lead to different answers. The aim of that is to examine the exam takers’ attention to detail and not their ability to memorise answers.

Wonder mum also waiting on Ibstock here! Wish I knew what time last year they released the info, keep refreshing my email!
good luck

@Roundstone just checked my old emails, It came at 5:06

This is precisely why it needs to be raised now. The first Consortium exam has already been compromised. The London Consortium should now be liaising with Atom to ensure that the next two tests, at least, are fair.

The girls who sat both PHS and / or Ibstock and then London Consortium reported being given exactly the same questions, not merely similar ones.

Thanks so much Likelists!

Someone replied to me last year they had the email at 17h06 so probably around that time.
finger crossed🤞🏻

Oupsss just saw the reply is here there you go 😉

Hi! Can anyone whose DD took the consortium exam last year please let me know if G&L will tell us the outcome of first stage pre Christmas or is it early January as well? The website only states the January interview date but not when they would be sharing the outcome of the first stage. thank you!

I think the extend of the incident need to be quantify - if large amount of questions say 1/3 is identical, I agree with you.

I assume there are multiple sections - Maths English VR NVR and adittional sections in consortium test. Of course parents who paid for the admission fee is entitled to raise this question to consortium according to the exam code. It is up to the consortium to do the fact check the scale of the issues.

The questions in the adaptive part in the consortium test will vary for each examinee because of the adaptive nature. The FAQ states that they will also alter the questions in the non-adaptive parts for each of the three exam days to maintain the test security.

We didn't sit last year but I made a note from a friend who did. Emails went round on 6th Jan re interviews and the interviews were on Jan 13th (ie people heard a week before). So I wouldn't expect to hear before the first week of Jan (interviews this year are Jan 12th).

some questions were definitely identical, not similar. not all... I think DD recognised about 3 questions from the SHS exam in the Ibstock maths exam so sounds like less than 1/3 but it's totally unacceptable for a "bespoke" exam and runs counter to everything Atom promises. Schools should also be ashamed of themselves for trying to save money on ISEB/G&L and go for a cheap suboptimal alternative.

We are very much biased towards choosing a school that make the effort to set and mark their own papers and are only using the atom schools as backups but of course those applying to girls' schools don't have that luxury. It really says something about a school if they can't bother to set their own papers or ensure the exam provider is qualified and trustworthy. ISEB/CEM/G&L have been professional for decades, atom is a startup run by guys in their twenties looking to make money. It's nice for online practice and test prep but schools really should not use them for their entrance process if they are serious about it. I really hope this is the last year atom is the test provider of choice for so many schools. Parents should complain to the schools to make sure this does not happen again.

After the holidays. We got our email last year Jan 6th, for an interview the following week Friday. I assume it will be the same and you will find out after the holidays. It felt like forever because we found out after the holidays for all the schools.

To add to this, I found the following in one of their many emails:

Invitations to interview will be sent after the Christmas holidays, no later than Monday 8 January 2024

Yes, that's between the three Consortium exams. But there has been crossover between the Consortium exam and Atom-set exams for other schools, which students sat prior to sitting the Consortium.

I'm aware how the adaptive nature of the exam works, but given what's been reported by students who are seeing many of the same questions, it would seem there are limited pathways through the exam. And if students are seeing the same comprehension passage in the English section (which is reportedly what has happened) then that is clearly an issue.

If it is the same English passage over different exam schools and days, even with different adaptive questions I think it does compromise the exam to a degree.

Completely agree with all of this. Atom have appeared out of nowhere, set up by a couple of finance guys clearly seeing an opportunity to make a ton of cash. The experience of this year's 11+ should be enough to stop schools using them again for assessment purposes.

I know that quite a few parents are raising it both with the senior schools and the London Consortium but enough people need to speak up, and at the moment there's such a big crossover of students who sat both PHS and / or Ibstock and then Consortium that those parents don't want to speak up as they know their kid is at an advantage.

According to girls who sat PHS and then Ibstock, the cross-over material was about 1/3, not just the odd question here and there. That's clearly unacceptable.

If I had a DD sitting Ibstock last Saturday who didn't sit PHS the day before, I would absolutely be writing to the Head of Ibstock to flag what's happened and to ask what they intend to do to ensure it's a fair process for all candidates.