Private school to ditch GCSEs, write own exams

[noblegiraffe]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/gcses-private-schools-london-qualification-latymer-school-b1106686.html

Not entirely sure what to make of this. Latymer Upper (I'm not really up on private schools so don't know how fancy it is) is planning to ditch GCSEs and create its own assessments to 'free up teaching time'.

I guess if it's a super-selective type school they'd be expecting all the kids to go onto A-levels anyway so aren't worried about losing GCSEs, but what of kids who want to go elsewhere? How recognised would their portfolio be?

Also, we know from covid just how good some private schools are at marking their own homework so how would anyone know if standards were being maintained?

I'm surprised that a school has enough staffing capacity to set up its own exam system tbh.

We're not a private business, we're a charity - and above all, a school. Yes, I know lots of people think that's just a semantic difference. But although we charge fees and therefore have a very different model from a state school, we don't have profits and shareholders - and that does matter.

I've worked in the state sector as well, so I'm not totally ignorant of the issues. I'm sorry if I sound patronising (though it does also strike me that private schools are constantly denigrated for not doing enough to support state schools and then criticised as patronising for pretty much everything they do offer). Yes, we're probably better placed to help the top end than the bottom end, because that's the sector we know. And it may be that it's the bottom end that needs more support - but the state sector has a top end too, and I would hope that (for example) offering state school kids help with preparing for Oxbridge entrance still helps to level the the playing field just a tiny bit, and provides a little bit of resource. It would probably be more patronising if we offered to help directly support lower achieving students, where we have less expertise.

I get that it feels unfair that private schools have the resource to navel gaze while state schools are constantly fire-fighting. But I still believe it's better that someone (outside of a politicised education secretary who's been in the job five minutes) has the capacity to navel gaze than that nobody has. In the long run, education needs people to think about it. It might feel like the education sector can't withstand another overhaul - but if you look at the changes that are going to happen in society, employment and education over the next 50 years, then arguably it can't afford NOT to have an overhaul. And that means people thinking about it now. I'm not saying that a few private schools designing their own exams is the grand answer to anything. But if nobody has the capacity to think about anything other than crumbling buildings and teacher shortages, then nobody's thinking about possible change.

Hahaha @userresuuser our local private school offered support for state school Oxbridge candidates in the shape of a single afternoon. As opposed to a whole term of Wednesday afternoons for their own paying customers. As far as I could see that was the justification for their charitable status. And it simply isn't enough.

I'm not here to get into a debate about charitable status, it's been done to death on MN. I think it's pretty well-established that some schools do very little, a few do lots, and others are somewhere in between. Ours is definitely on the quite a lot end of the scale (Oxbridge prep was just one very small example), but that's not the point of the thread.

the assumption that it'll benefit the state system is absurd

No it is certainly not. Thinking about what schools are actually for rather than following the path of old traditional curriculum and outdated GCSEs benefits us all. Buildings, teachers and prescribed curricula, if those are necessary at all, are subordinate to the big picture of the purpose of the education. We need to see the wood for the trees.

Interesting - I read a similar article this weekend about GCSE being ditching by private schools but when I read it they were all apparently moving to IGCSE which author then went off about inferiority - which struck me as odd I thought they were just different.

Wales is currently mid reform and GCSE reform will start soon - there was talk of getting rid of GCSE and doing school certificate instead - you can still leave school at 16 here - in end it was more popular to keep GCSE and reform them. I've seen threads on here suggesting there are plans to get rid of Scotland's National Five - I think it is.

Welsh GCSE my DC have sat and are sitting are very different to current English GCSE. I know N.I does mix of English boards and their own board - which I've no clue what those GCSE are like.

DH, in higher education , cynically thinks we've just reached the education theory cycle bit where it's anti exams. I suspect it may be the actual exams courses available and that.

All it takes is one little scandal, the papers to escalate and all their credibility will go out the window. This is far too high a risk and I'd be really surprised if they remain oversubscribed when they ditch standard benchmarked exams.

Lol - I always find it amusing arrogant when posters mention private schools without any info on where they are or what age group - like anyone knows this stuff (a handful of famous ones aside) outside of a small bubble.

Are these schools scared they can no longer compete with London state schools any longer, so this is a desperate bid to shift the goal posts.

Across the sector collective efforts to maintain charitable status are a massive scam.

@GodessOfThunder - it's no different to posters asking for info on state schools all over the country. If you have heard of the school you might reply.
I might know about state and private schools where I live. Wouldn't have a clue about others.

I think it's much more likely that they are finding that more and more of their sixth formers are applying to universities overseas and they need a broader curriculum. GCSEs are ridiculous, they neither stretch the brightest nor interest the non academic. Too many people come out with nothing at the lower end and too many of the brighter students are bored to tears by the endurance test which is the modern GCSE. People who pay high levels of fees are often less concerned with 9x9s and more concerned with educating their children to get into top careers, I am not sure that this is right or that LUs solution is the correct one but they are not the only school thinking of this .

Well, if I come any GCSE-less applicants when I’m recruiting for what is considered by many “a top career”, their CVs will be deleted. I don’t have time to start researching what secondary school they went to and whatever peculiar alternative it decided to create.

@GodessOfThunder - if they have a degree and A levels why would lack of GCSEs matter? What about overseas applicants who don't have GCSEs? Do you automatically discard them as well?

There is an article in this week’s Sunday Times by Giles Coren dissing private schools and Latymer Upper’s choice. Giles Coren, another journalist, who himself went to a posh prep and the Westminster School followed by Oxford. He then refers to his own kids at the comp.
The end of the article is down right racist “Indeed, so heavily Saudi, Chinese and Russian are these schools now that I hear the Saudis, Chinese and Russians are beginning to lose interest because they sent their kids here to meet English nobs and all they’re getting is other Saudis, Chinese and Russians, which is a bit of a waste of time.” At the end it refers to the “little foreign buggers”. Seriously!

Most interestingly, this journalist also refers to the “establishment” - children of doctors and politicians AND JOURNALISTS and low-ranking toffs”.
It comes across as he is the establishment and his kids are at the comp and only bankers/lawyers and FOREENERS now go private,

Essentially, another journo spouting hate because he went to Westminster and his own kids are now at the local comp. How is this even acceptable? Why do they publish this utter nonsense?

My two pennies’ worth on Latymer Upper’s plan -is it a new CEO style head trying to make their “mark”? Anyone know?
Personally, I would be quite annoyed if there were such changes if my DCs were at this school. Because typically you sign up and then they change everything without asking you and tell you you can give a term’s notice or lump it.
Let’s hope we don’t get massive curriculum changes as soon as the Labour government come in. In a teacher staffing crisis that would be the worst. Our schools have got their heads around the current system and are effectively able to share lesson plans with temp staff. If they reinvent the wheel yet again it is going to be a nightmare.

Because one thing I am interested in, for instance, is basic numeracy. If a candidate has then done all arts A levels and an arts degree, I have no way of knowing if they have this, even with a 1st in, say, classics from Oxbridge.

I would expect them to have a verifiable national qualification, yes.

This seems like a loyalty scam to me to keep parents sending their kids to a particular school.

Another motivation is surely that these schools are struggling to demonstrate superior GCSE results to private competitors and likely also state schools. It’s got bugger all to do with them supposedly being stuffed full of Young Sheldons who are far far too bright for that numpty GCSE stuff.

There is actually a new head this term but it's been discussed within the Prep school for a couple of years and the first year group it affects is current Y6s so it's a while away and doesn't affect anyone currently at the Senior School.

I doubt Goldman Sachs in New York cares two hoots about GCSEs and to be honest I have worked with stacks of people educated all over the world who don’t have GCSEs . The employment market place is global. My nephews and nieces attended international schools and have a smorgasbord of qualifications, and in two cases no GCSEs, it doesn’t seem to have stopped them getting onto graduate schemes in London.

Well they won’t be on mine.

They're still doing Maths and English GCSEs anyway.

Rubbish. They are doing it because they can't 'fiddle' GCSE results and now the teacher assessment has gone back to exam assessment are finding it hard to achieve the grades they were.

IGCSEs are known to be less rigorous which is why the government stopped them counting in league tables - so preventing state schools taking them (which is why the government stopped them counting in league tables).

There should be a level playing field. In education, health, taxation, there should be no place to gain advantage simply because you or your parents are wealthy. It simply disadvantages those who are not and advantages those who are.

Every state school would love to write its own programme at GCSE and assess it. Teachers could produce really interesting programmes and certificate them. They are not allowed to because the government thinks teacher written and assessed programmes are not rigorous and always advantage results. The same system should apply to all children. That is what is fair.

“There is actually a new head this term but it's been discussed within the Prep school for a couple of years and the first year group it affects is current Y6s so it's a while away and doesn't affect anyone currently at the Senior School.”

Personally, if my DC were at this school in Year 6 I would be really stressed about these changes! I had picked what I thought was a co-ed solid academic school where my DC can go to the Senior bit without too much 11 plus stress and now I have to decide last minute whether to stay or go, knowing full well that the 11 plus in West London is an utter nightmare and that it is kind of very late to prepare. And the school will turn around and say, well you knew etc and you could have moved.

If the head is new, I rest my case. Newcomer that is attention seeking and trying to make their mark. I absolutely detest this kind of approach and if I were applying, I would think very careful about it now, because I do not like that style of leadership. Who else are they willing to annoy if they don’t care about the parents? A good leader comes in, observes for a few years, does not make huge changes in the first couple of years.
It is bad news for the professional parent just about paying school fees whose DC would stay in the UK because they cannot afford eg the US and whose aim is another professional London based career and a UK university.

This lady https://www.latymer-upper.org/new-head-announced/#:~:text=Kieran%20Murphy%2C%20Chair%20of%20Governors,exceptional%20leadership%20of%20the%20School.

She is doing a Liz Truss, in my opinion.

You missed the point that parents in the Prep have known about it for a couple of years. The new head has been there for 2 weeks!

Actually I just looked at the website and they've been researching the idea for 4 years. She's hardly just walked in last week and thought of a new idea to introduce.