Cheating admission system

[Anonymousposter17]

Prepared to take a battering here, but interested to know what others would think.

Two years ago I moved towns to try to be able to get a better standard of high school for my dd who is now in y 6. We don’t live in a part of the country where selection is a thing, although she’s bright and I think she’d pass 11+ given the opportunity. Private education is out of my reach financially.

I’m a Christian who has always attended ce church, even before I had dd. Dd is baptised. There is a brilliant ce state school in a small neighbouring town to where I live. I couldn’t afford to buy there. I researched this school’s admission policy and aside from the usual looked after children, medical needs and children of staff it went like this:

1 children living in the parishes v close to school (where I couldn’t afford to buy) with proof of church attendance

2 children living in a few named parishes slightly further from school with evidence of church attendance (I bought in one of these parishes)

3 children in the nearby parishes with no church attendance

4 children further away with no church attendance (I’m pretty far away given how oversubscribed this school is)

anyway I did a freedom of information request before buying my house to ask on the most recent cohort where the last admitted child came on the criteria and it was criteria 3, meaning me being criteria two would have got dd in that year. I’m aware things change year on year but it gave me the general picture.

Now it’s time to apply and the criteria for the next intake has been amended. It now goes

1 nearby children with church
2 nearby children without church
3 far away children with church
4 far away children no church

their admission booklet shows that this year only one child got in based on 3 far away with church so there’s now almost certainly no way I’d get her a place.

my partners mother owns and rents out a number of houses in the nearby names parishes. This presents an opportunity to rent from her at a very discounted rate (but not easily affordable either) to be living in the right place. If I rented one from her, I literally would move there albeit in the short term as I’d be terrified of getting caught lying but I’m not sure I’d get permission from my lender to let my house out so it may stand empty. I’ve no idea about renting houses out. I can just about take the financial hit of renting from parters mum but it would not be easy.

honestly, if you had the means to do this (and the motive- there is nowhere close to this school in standards near and no other option for a faith education for her) would you? Or am I scum of the earth for even thinking it.

I recognise the irony in someone looking for a Christian education being so devious btw

Matthew 7:12

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

You should do it to get your child into the school for sure- I would if I could . I don't know how the council would find out you own elsewhere if you go on the electoral role and pay council tax at the new address? You can register at gp at new address too?
You can move house for whatever reason you like - people buy houses next to good state schools for exactly that reason, just because you're renting not buying it's the same thing.

But things to consider are-

Could you stick your owned home (perhaps with valuables/prize possessions locked in one bedroom, so if it's a 3 bedroom house you advertise a 2 bedroom) on air bnb for extra income/to subsidize rent to partners mother - you may not need to tell your mortgage company about this. I do this often when I go on holiday it pays for at least half of my trip costs. Air bnb has good insurance too. But you might feel safer asking your mortgage if you can do this short term or if they do consent to let short term - some mortgage providers will do this if people travel - but there is a risk they will say no then what would you do? But not telling them might count as mortgage fraud.

You could keep things as is but rent rooms in your owned house on spare room or on air bnb as lodgers so you can have very simple lodger agreements with them- this would help you pay rent.

Just take a loan out to pay rent to the mother in law - expensive but cheaper than moving oe private school fees

Would you need to tell the council your owned home is in that it's vacant or it's become a holiday let - that might impact your council tax but it's more evidence you don't live there.

Would this impact capital gains tax on your owned home? Probably not if you only move out for a year.

Would this impact your home insurance on your owned home?

Do not tell anyone and be very very careful about what you tell your child - if they tell their friends what's happening you could be reported to the council and then they might investigate

You could also get a lodger this year to save up money to pay to rent the flat and then go and live in the flat. You would actually need to live and sleep there to not be immoral though I think

Moving there when you are only there for as long as it takes to get a school place is immoral whether you live and sleep there or not. It cheats another child out of a place who genuinely qualifies.

I know some people ( actually a fair few) who did something like this. They put their house on the market, got a sale agreed and used it as " proof of intention to move" then once their son had the place tooked the house off the market. Another bought a 2 bed flat in the catchment and had utility bills in their name, but rented it out.

Bloody hell this takes the biscuit in terms of mucking about with people's lives. Unbelievable level of entitlement.

It is quite likely that someone will report you. I know this, because I reported a neighbour who did the same to get their kid into an oversubscribed secondary in a posher area than the one we live in.

Look I don't think you're doing anything wrong, how did every other child get a place at the school? Either the family moved to the town deliberately to get a place or they had no idea when the bought/rented and accidentally got a place.

If @Anonymousposter17 you rent out your current house and then rent your families house in the catchment you are not doing anything immoral, your DC has just as much right to attend the school as any other. The school are not going to discriminate between those with a mortgage and those renting and many people own investment properties and "rentvest" in the area they want to live in because they can't afford to buy.
I suggest you contact your mortgage company and switch over to buy to let and crack on.

I really can't understand what all the pearl clutching is all about.

Some LA's won't allow a change of address because of house sale without a completion statement from the sale. I presume to stop this happening.

Neither of these people are me and the "children" are all in their 20's I think they are quite safe tbh.

@SoupDragon but any family who get into the school by living close to it at the time of admissions can move out of the area?

If a family said 'we own a small house next to amazing school, we moved to this road because of the school, we plan to move somewhere bigger and further away just after dc gets into it so that we can be sure they have a place' would they be in the wrong too? Can you only morally apply to schools that you know you'll love close to for many years to come? How is the op different just because she's not selling?

Don't hate on the individual, hate the system in my view.

To reiterate you cannot tell anyone that you are keeping on your house and plan to move back and you have to think about if your dc can handle the pressure of not being allowed to explain to any friends why they've moved from nice big house to little flat , people are so bitter that someone will report you if anyone finds out

Temporarily moving to a house in catchment is immoral. 🤷🏻‍♀️ There's really no argument. Saying "What about people who...? doesn't make it right.

You think it's OK to cheat a child out of a school place they should have qualified for, I don't.

Also, if you get found out, there's a good chance of you losing the place (even after the child has started) and ending up with nowhere or some random undersubscribed school

Faith schools usually act as their own admissions authorities and have dedicated staff checking the application form to make sure that applicants give correct details.
If you had posted a thread entitles "moved to new area 2 years ago and desired school has changed it's admission criteria" you may have received some more constructive advice. Instead however you have jumped straight to "cheating" the system.
Renting from an independent private landlord is one thing, but using a relative's property and paying below market rent is also extremely dodgy.

Does the school do home visits in reception? You would need to be at that address then if they did.
I think the ethics and morals around getting school places is very dodgy, but whatever you do, you need to make sure that you fit in with what the school allows or you may lose the space.

It's secondary school

Omg 🤦🏼‍♀️ all that references to Christ, morality😂... It is down to school and council that state how many months before applying you have to live within the catchment and how many years the priest needs to know you. If the OP meets the requirements she will be awarded the place and there is nothing wrong with what she is doing

Are you sure you don't come under the first category?

Ironic really that you are mad about the admissions to a church school. Join the majority of parents who find it an outrage that churchgoing parents get a choice of two schools when the rest of us get one.

@whatsappdoc Come on, you should extend your anger at grammar schools, Protestant schools, CoE schools and maybe private schools the most 😄

If we go this path we should be equally frustrated that there are people w studied at Oxford and ultimately at those who earn more money 😆👹

But the harsh reality is Scarcity rules, it means that the demand is greater than the availability ...in everything:)

I don’t really have a perspective on your plan, but that’s weird criteria for a faith school. Surely regular church attendance trumps proximity, otherwise why say you are a faith school??

where do you see a lie? She plans to pay council in new place. The council that awards places sees if she owns another house, and she moved and may as well say: you live too short in the current place to be considered for the catchment as the requirement is to be 12 months in one place, 2 years in one place etc.

It is all fair and just - the council decides. The council will also check where she attends the school and if she pays the council in old place, owns house.

This is what I don't quite understand. Let's say I own a house but decide I want to live in a better area (could be nearer, work, family, school or better access whatever). Move in year 5 into rented in the better area and let my own property out to cover costs.
If my own house were 100 miles from where I was renting - then I can't see why my child wouldn't get into the catchment school of my rented property assuming all criteria met at the right time. What is the difference if my existing house is only 15 miles away but I want to move anyway (for work or whatever reason). If I am genuinely renting (and letting my house out so I can't possibly be using it myself) - then why would I not apply to the catchment school for the rented house?

The reason councils count the owned home as the main residence is because its a very common ruse to rent a flat in catchment to gain a school place and then move back to the owned family home once this has been secured for the child and younger siblings if there's a sibling priority. If the owned home is sold that's different

Is it a faith school or not? They have their own admissions criteria and local authorities don’t make checks.
Ours accept a council tax bill as proof of address, letter from landlord, utility bill. Our teachers visit you in your home before admission.

Our school is oversubscribed and attending church is paramount, people who live less than two mile away who aren’t religious are not guaranteed a place. Even you if you get a place in primary, you may not get a place in secondary unless you attend church.

People DO regularly move in to catchment areas and rent admittedly usually for around six months beforehand. It is highly unlikely a child will get thrown out of the school because the parent moves further down the line. Parents split up, homes get sold, or sometimes the dad stays in the home because he can buy mum out and afford mortgage/maintenance and mum and children have to move. You don’t have great swathes of kids being ejected from schools. Some travel miles.

Or maybe mum can’t afford the mortgage anymore and rents cheaper, more coveted accommodation from her MIL. Why wouldn’t you? Good luck to any school or local authority taking the time to disprove that, if there’s documentation, tenancy agreement etc. Your liable for council in a property you occupy, exemptions would be placed on an empty property. Might be checked by a visiting officer to view that it is ‘empty’. But that’s it unless you own loads of empty homes…
What happens if you put your home on the market and ‘move in’ with your MIL who I presume lives in catchment, changing all legal I.D docs…