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Secondary education

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Original poster

Cheating admission system

160 replies

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 18:31

Prepared to take a battering here, but interested to know what others would think.

Two years ago I moved towns to try to be able to get a better standard of high school for my dd who is now in y 6. We don’t live in a part of the country where selection is a thing, although she’s bright and I think she’d pass 11+ given the opportunity. Private education is out of my reach financially.

I’m a Christian who has always attended ce church, even before I had dd. Dd is baptised. There is a brilliant ce state school in a small neighbouring town to where I live. I couldn’t afford to buy there. I researched this school’s admission policy and aside from the usual looked after children, medical needs and children of staff it went like this:

1 children living in the parishes v close to school (where I couldn’t afford to buy) with proof of church attendance

2 children living in a few named parishes slightly further from school with evidence of church attendance (I bought in one of these parishes)

3 children in the nearby parishes with no church attendance

4 children further away with no church attendance (I’m pretty far away given how oversubscribed this school is)

anyway I did a freedom of information request before buying my house to ask on the most recent cohort where the last admitted child came on the criteria and it was criteria 3, meaning me being criteria two would have got dd in that year. I’m aware things change year on year but it gave me the general picture.

Now it’s time to apply and the criteria for the next intake has been amended. It now goes

1 nearby children with church
2 nearby children without church
3 far away children with church
4 far away children no church

their admission booklet shows that this year only one child got in based on 3 far away with church so there’s now almost certainly no way I’d get her a place.

my partners mother owns and rents out a number of houses in the nearby names parishes. This presents an opportunity to rent from her at a very discounted rate (but not easily affordable either) to be living in the right place. If I rented one from her, I literally would move there albeit in the short term as I’d be terrified of getting caught lying but I’m not sure I’d get permission from my lender to let my house out so it may stand empty. I’ve no idea about renting houses out. I can just about take the financial hit of renting from parters mum but it would not be easy.

honestly, if you had the means to do this (and the motive- there is nowhere close to this school in standards near and no other option for a faith education for her) would you? Or am I scum of the earth for even thinking it.

I recognise the irony in someone looking for a Christian education being so devious btw

OP posts:
ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:51

Don’t do anything and stay in your current house. Have faith. If it’s God’s will, surely she’ll get in?

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:52

ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:51

Don’t do anything and stay in your current house. Have faith. If it’s God’s will, surely she’ll get in?

Have you never read that meme/ cartoon story of the vicar in a flood?

OP posts:
BusJam · 05/09/2023 20:53

OP, schools can’t just change the admissions order. Did they properly consult? I think that if they wanted to change entry for 2024, the consultation should have been completed in January this year. But it sounds like you are just finding out now

ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:54

But surely in this case it’s Satan whispering in your ear, not God sending you a helicopter or whatever version of that story you are thinking of

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:55

BusJam · 05/09/2023 20:53

OP, schools can’t just change the admissions order. Did they properly consult? I think that if they wanted to change entry for 2024, the consultation should have been completed in January this year. But it sounds like you are just finding out now

They must have consulted, just not me lol. Basically I checked 2.5 years ago or more when I first started looking to move. In the time since I’ve not looked again. My own stupid fault but I checked what I could at the time and moved on that basis

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2023 20:57

ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:51

Don’t do anything and stay in your current house. Have faith. If it’s God’s will, surely she’ll get in?

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I'd love to be able to say that to the fraudulent applications, the not so subtle attempts at bribery and coercion and outright rages I've experienced over the years.

Yeah, wealthier families game the system. That's what they do - it's one of the reasons that faith schools prioritise evidenced faith, as that isn't as dependent upon family income (RC schools in particular tend to be far more diverse and with a significant number of disadvantaged students even when they're located in extremely expensive and mostly white middleclass areas). But the government wanted distance to be the final tiebreaker, which still benefits the sharper elbowed with deeper pockets.

ZooMount · 05/09/2023 21:01

I think there's a high birth rate for this year 6 too. Don't worry op I don't think you're being dishonest, you're just trying to do what's best for your child. At least you are trying to play within the rules and not just lying which is what some people do. I do think you will need to sell your house though. I don't think there are any rules about renting for a short while and then moving away, but if you move back into a house you already own then that would seem fraudulent.

ReadRum · 05/09/2023 21:03

ZooMount · 05/09/2023 21:01

I think there's a high birth rate for this year 6 too. Don't worry op I don't think you're being dishonest, you're just trying to do what's best for your child. At least you are trying to play within the rules and not just lying which is what some people do. I do think you will need to sell your house though. I don't think there are any rules about renting for a short while and then moving away, but if you move back into a house you already own then that would seem fraudulent.

It’s not within the rules in most places. If you own a property and rent another you are obliged to use the address of the owned property

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 21:05

Does anyone know if sibling preference applies in applications after year seven? Ds is in year 4, so if I legitimately sold and rented in the right area, and ds got in, would dd be more likely to get in if a space were available in future?

OP posts:
Puffthemagicdragongoestobed · 05/09/2023 21:05

@Anonymousposter17 yes we did buy. Still there nearly four years later.

ReadRum · 05/09/2023 21:05

Of course the privileged cheat, but as a Christian OP must refuse to sink to that level

Nonameoclue · 05/09/2023 21:08

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 21:05

Does anyone know if sibling preference applies in applications after year seven? Ds is in year 4, so if I legitimately sold and rented in the right area, and ds got in, would dd be more likely to get in if a space were available in future?

It will say in the admissions criteria for the school.

PurpleBugz · 05/09/2023 21:08

If you actually move to the rental there is nothing wrong with it. Only devious if you don't actually move. Stick it out for a year then move back if you can't rent out your house. I say that as a Christian.

usernother · 05/09/2023 21:09

You can try and cover it up and take a chance but they way lots of parents are found out are by other parents telling the School Admissions dept that fraud is being committed. This is then investigated and can result in the place given being removed. This is often very embarrassing for the child who then has to explain to friends why they are no longer going to the school they've told all their friends they are going to. The stats regarding who gets in from where on what criteria will change every year so should only be used as a rough guide.

usernother · 05/09/2023 21:11

Further to what I've already said other parents often get to know because the child involved tells people. It's very unfair for parents to encourage children to lie for them.

Doyoumind · 05/09/2023 21:14

usernother · 05/09/2023 21:11

Further to what I've already said other parents often get to know because the child involved tells people. It's very unfair for parents to encourage children to lie for them.

This is exactly what I was going to sat. People will find out via your child. It will be prompted by them being the only child coming in from out of area as the primary school is so far away.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 21:19

Doyoumind · 05/09/2023 21:14

This is exactly what I was going to sat. People will find out via your child. It will be prompted by them being the only child coming in from out of area as the primary school is so far away.

Show quote history

Just to clarify our situation, whichever high school she ends up at she will be the only child from primary going to that high school. Her primary is in our old town. We moved to new town in year four. I’ve kept them in old town primary because it’s awesome, I commute into old town so no biggie.

high school is in a town next to my current town. There’s a school bus from the end of my road that takes children to the high school. Presumably these are children who got in on the old criteria of faith but further away before it changed.

OP posts:
Doyoumind · 05/09/2023 21:25

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 21:19

Just to clarify our situation, whichever high school she ends up at she will be the only child from primary going to that high school. Her primary is in our old town. We moved to new town in year four. I’ve kept them in old town primary because it’s awesome, I commute into old town so no biggie.

high school is in a town next to my current town. There’s a school bus from the end of my road that takes children to the high school. Presumably these are children who got in on the old criteria of faith but further away before it changed.

Show quote history

That's nothing to do with the point I was making. I had understoof your situation. Children talk about where they've come from and where they live and how long they've lived there.

But coming from a primary 20 miles away will be unusual even for a faith school.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 21:35

Doyoumind · 05/09/2023 21:25

That's nothing to do with the point I was making. I had understoof your situation. Children talk about where they've come from and where they live and how long they've lived there.

But coming from a primary 20 miles away will be unusual even for a faith school.

Show quote history

Well yes I see your point about talking about where we live and how long we’ve lived there but she’s going to be coming from a primary school 15 miles away regardless of where she ends up. That was always going to be the case

OP posts:
BungleandGeorge · 05/09/2023 21:47

You need to look up
the admissions policy on residence, they are usually pretty strict and potentially you may not be able to do this. If you can legitimately fulfil the criteria then I think you’re as entitles as anyone else. Personally I think it’s vastly unfair that state schools are allowed to use any faith criteria and don’t really see why the ability to buy in a much more expensive area are ‘fair’. Obviously you shouldn’t lie but if you genuinely meet the criteria then you’re just as entitled as anyone else

clary · 05/09/2023 22:20

Nonameoclue · 05/09/2023 20:40

I don't think buying a house & moving to get into a school is immoral (it's within the rules). I think renting for a while to get into a school (or pretending to) & then moving back to where you came from is immoral (& not within the rules).

Yes agree. I don't think anyone is saying that selling up now and buying or renting near the school is immoral. But that was not what you suggested?

Mum1976Mum · 06/09/2023 00:58

Absolutely I would do it! The schooling system is this country is crap and unfair anyway. Why should you be able to buy a better education by being able to afford a house in a nicer area.

What I would do is put my house up for sale at an unrealistic price and rent the other house. If anyone questions you then you are in the process of selling in. Give it a year, you get no good offers, you go back to it.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 06/09/2023 01:06

Have you even done any open evening visits to any schools (Inc this one)? If not, then considering selling your home to move closer to a school you've not even viewed, or ctirwued against other schools nearby is actual batshittery.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 06/09/2023 01:07

ctirwued sorry typo. Critiqued.

DavinaTheDreadful · 06/09/2023 06:13

Why should you be able to buy a better education by being able to afford a house in a nicer area.

I think the logic behind this is that people living closer to the school pay council tax etc which can fund the schools. Coming from out of catchment you aren't contributing to the local area in the same way.