11 plus for child with mild ADHD?

[Booyou123]

When I say mild, he gets on absolutely fine but needs reminding to pay attention about 50 times a day. Socially fine, academically expected, gets on with homework with encouragement etc.

He just finished Year 2 and we are starting 11 plus tutoring in September where he will have four extra hours a week of English and maths.

Anyone else share their thoughts or experiences?

My thought is decide in Yr 5. Over-education at this age can mean they’re bored in school as they already know everything the rest of the class are learning.

Tutoring from Y3 for the test in Y6? Wow.

A lot can change in these years. My DS’s ADHD is much more severe now (going into Y6) than it was in Y3.

Also it’s not just the test itself the child has to be capable of passing, it’s the whole grammar school environment (pace, expectations, very bright peers, volume of work) he’d need to be suitable for.

Personally I’d only tutor now if he was behind in anything specific, not even thinking of the 11+. You can’t plan that far ahead with an ADHD child, you need to meet him where he is and focus on the present and near future. Try not to put pressure on him at such a young age, you don’t want him to burn out.

@Sensibletrousers Absolutely agree with you, he doesn’t even know what the 11 plus is.

I feel like even if he doesn’t get in, the extra help would put him in a good position for starting Year 7.

btw would you mind sharing, how the adhd got worse?

He wasn’t even diagnosed until Y3.

Now in Y6, anxiety, hyperactivity, distractability, school
avoidance all increased.

Focus, concentration, emotional regulation, executive function, self esteem and confidence all decreased.

He is bright enough to pass the 11+, but would never cope with day to life at a mainstream secondary, let alone the added expectations at a grammar. He’d be constantly lost, late, overwhelmed and an anxious wreck. We’re applying for an EHCP now and doing all we can to get him some support from CAMHS and OT during Y6. He’s also just started on meds.

Not suggesting all children with ADHD get worse at any point, just illustrating my point of not getting ahead of yourself or thinking too far ahead.

We have a DC in yr4 just started 11+ coaching. Has combined type ADHD. We have had to externalise motivation to get anything done, small but immediate incentives e.g. 20p per question correct over 70% talking about longterm goals (going to the same school as all their friends) didn't work at all as it was too removed from the now.

We worry what will happen in the exam room though and are tempted to try medication.

4 hours tutoring a week from Year 3? That's way too much for any child on top of the regular school day.
IME he'll need to be working at greater depth rather than expected to have a good chance of passing.

4 hours per week is too much for a child of that age on top of school. Do they not have hobbies?

Thanks @Sensibletrousers I know it’s not the case for all, but it’s good to know the experiences of others and the different directions it can take. Are you or would you ever consider medication?

it has been our decision to place him in tut-ion , as we think he will thrive because he loves doing academically well. He has plenty of other hobbies, football mainly - plays for two teams, training and matches and swimming takes up the rest of his time.

I suppose my post was just to reach out and ask for any shared experiences of going through 11 plus with SEN.

@CuriousPorg i am reading about medication too. He doesn’t need to it now, as his school have never flagged that he is a problem (easily distracted though!) but as he gets older - things may change so I am researching now in case we do need it. School gets harder not easier, and maybe KS2 will prove more of a challenge.

What are your thoughts on medication?

If he needs 4+ hours of tuition a week to have a chance of passing, he shouldn't be going. 11+ is very tough. Child needs to be significantly above average to pass, Greater Depth being achieved easily.

Never mind the cost - £40 an hour minimum for a decent 11+ tutor.

Grammar schools are no less 'busy' than a normal high school. If you're wanting a quieter environment for him, I suggest a private school. Which if you're able to chuck £800 a month at tutoring for him, you can obviously afford.

With regards to his ADHD, honestly, I don't know of many ADHD children who have got through the 11+. Medication will help them focus but the sheer time pressures of the 11+ is hard enough for those without additional needs. Suggest you download some papers and have a go yourself. They're not hard for a 10 yr old - they're hard!

I would say 4hrs of formal tutoring a week is total overkill. If you get 121 tuition with an excellent tutor an hour is enough.

All I have done for several years now is go to W H Smith’s and root around for the 11+ books, maths puzzles, verbal reasoning, reading comprehensions etc…. You do find out quickly what they are good at and any bits that need to be worked on or learned by rote ie what is a noun, adverb, is this a simile,…

We have just started doing the old 11+ papers now and he is just about to start Year 5. You realise these are so formulaic after a few and that familiarity gives them confidence.

My son is in an independent school and these books I mentioned above are what they do in school and for homework from Year 1.

Several people within my family with ADD (either diagnosed or undiagnosed with many of the traits) went to Grammar School. My family is very competitive and maybe that is the edge that is needed to get in.

OP - I’m wondering why you aren’t responding to the unanimous feedback that four hours additional tutoring a week is far too much at that age. 11+ prep tutoring for a year in yr5 is hardcore enough. Are you hoping he’ll be working at greater depth later in the year if you push him?

Our psychologist suggested medication for secondary when it's more pressured but don't think she factored in 11+. The more I read the more I think it's worthwhile trialling it, and it could take a year or more to get the dosage correct. It's not something you can just choose to dabble with 6 months before the test.

if I were you I would do home practice tests for your DC's age (Bond do them). The problem with starting official tutoring so early is if they don't get it you've put so much pressure on and made 4 years of their lives miserable for no reason.

I would be extremely wary of going for an indie or a selective school for a child with ADHD - especially if you are only in Y3 now.

It tends to get a lot more problematic later on - and very few indies or selective schools will want the hassle.

DD (Y10) has ADHD and dyslexia. She aces VR and NVR and has 9 & 8s as her GCSE target grades but her actual achievement is way below her CAT test results due to predominantly the ADHD issues.

She's primarily ADD - behaviour is angelic at school (not so much at home) - and has major issues with focus, executive function, organisation. It's manageable with subjects she likes, but the ones she doesn't are just a disaster.

I would find a school that is accepting of SEN and will work with your child's strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding the 4 hours a week tuition... depends on the child. Mine has always been into music and was probably doing that many hours or more from Y3 - and loved it. She's planning on a career in that area and does a crazy amount of hours now.

If your child just happens to like doing 11+ tests (I was that kind of kid) then crack on. However, if you are doing that much in the hopes of getting them a place, be very careful what you wish for.

DD's ADHD started getting a lot worse in Y6 - but we couldn't get a Dx due to Covid. Finally did it this year once we could get all the assessments done properly, and medication has been a massive success so far. Wish I had done it in Y5 when I first started talking to Primary about it.

Watch out for dyslexia and dyscalculia as well - around 70% of children with ADHD seem to have the double whammy.

If you are considering medication, get a copy of "The Parents' Guide to ADHD Medication". Absolutely superb and answers just about any question you might have.

And give yourself a good 6 months to get the meds right, if not longer. They need a lot of tweaking.

Does ADHD really get worse with age? I had read it peaks at age 7-8, that’s so depressing for my poor DS.

Probably not very productive for 11 plus focus tutoring from Year 3 regardless the condition.

Focus on the learning contents that can enhance the confidence AND boost positive emotions, create consistency and structure learning environment that remove the distraction elements might help.

Thank you for this recommendation

Also-have a careful look argot eh school he will go to if he passes. Some grammars are completely rubbish with AEN children.

Also-I would advise not starting 11+ coaching in year 3. He will be bored rigid by the time the exam comes round!

DD has Inattentive with elements of hyperactivity/impulsivity.

In terms of the hyperactivity/impulsivity, it's less bouncing off the walls but the constant fidgeting is not tolerated at secondary in the way it is in primary. Ditto interrupting.

The inattention gets far worse in the teen years in our experience. I went through DD's revision with her for Y9 exams and it you would have thought every topic was a brand new revelation to her. It felt as if she attended the lesson and everything she was taught went in one ear and straight out of the other. She had no clue as to what they had covered in class.

Yet bright child with v high GCSE targets.

You also start to get issues kicking in with anxiety, social problems (they tend to be slightly immature), pressure from teachers who don't understand it's a case of can't rather than won't.

We were 99.9% certain she was ADHD from the age of 5. I finally went private for a Dx this year when she was 14 as I could see it was getting worse and worse and I didn't want to start medicating (or regretting not) in the run-up to exams in Y11.

It may well be that a lot find it easier later if they have been diagnosed and medicated at a younger age. However, all my extended family members who have children with it have found it has been worse at secondary whether they were diagnosed and treated early or late.

11 plus in year 3 just means having a secure foundation in maths and English.
If you are aiming for a super selective, then you are aiming for a year or two ahead of the national curriculum. He would need to read plenty of books and you can discuss the characters in the book, the language used, inference etc.

I know plenty of successful people with ADHD. School is tougher because teachers have not been giving adequate training in this area. You will need to be your child's advocate and provide guidance.

Don't listen to people who say that there are very few people with ADHD in selective schools.