Is DS's lack of motivation with A levels normal?

[MerryMarigold]

Just finishing Y12. Dire mock results (B,D,E). He does do some schoolwork, but I wouldn't say he works hard - he will look up answers and he maybe puts in 1 hour a day at most. He doesn't go out, he doesn't work, so he has time to put in extra work but he doesn't. He mostly plays Fifa, or watches stuff on Netflix. He just doesn't seem motivated or interested in what he's chosen, and chose subjects he's always struggled with because he thought they were 'useful'! The subject he got the B in is something he enjoys and is 'easier' than Maths and Physics. I can't relate. I did subjects I enjoyed and was good at. He is convinced he is not 'talented' and seems to want to be one of those people who gets a B with minimum effort and an A* with some effort. Realistically for him, he can get a C with a LOT of work. I can see why he's not that motivated.

I don't know where to go from here. He is ND, not fully diagnosed (he has an ADHD diagnosis, but I think he shows more ASD symptoms to be honest). He did not want to go to college to do something maybe more suited to him because he did not like the travel (it was about 1.5 hours each way) nor the 'difference'. Staying at school was simple and he knows it well/ knew the people etc.

I have got him some tutoring for the Maths, which he said he wanted after the E grade, but he is dragging his feet over it (eg. logging in 5 mins late, not really wanting to do it), and I resent that when I am paying a lot for it.

What can I do to help him? What are the options? I am dreading Y13 and the amount of stress/ damage to his self esteem.

He is trying to 'revise' Y12 and is constantly asking me: What should I do today for Maths, Mum? I have no idea! It's like he has no ideas of what to do (read over the topic, make notes, answer exam questions on that topic) and I think it's because he can't be bothered to think about it because he's overwhelmed/ hates the subject etc.

Dd's results are similar. She wants to leave but there's nothing she wants to do as an alternative, so is limping on. She does study, but gets very sidetracked by her friends and her girlfriend and has constant FOMO. No advice but I feel your pain!

Sympathies. What sort of tutoring is he getting? Is it something that will let him work through his maths in a systematic way?

He does need a break over the Summer but should have time to go through maths topics, spending longer on those he struggled most with and working more quickly through those he was ok with.

@Assignedtoworryyourmother , thanks. It feels better not to be alone. I kind of wish he was at least getting some pleasure from going out.

@Nappy, It's quite minimal work in the holidays, couple of hours per day. If he could do 6 hours in a day then maybe a longer total break but he 'can't' so I figure he's still getting a good break if he's only working a couple hours per day. He will have 15 days of complete break from mid August. The Maths: he is currently working on the topics he struggles with the most with the tutor. I want to write a topic plan though so we don't have this 'don't know what to do' every time he has a work slot.

He also needs to do a lot of physics. I don't want him to before the subject he actually enjoys either! But he said there's not much to do (it's a more practical subject).

When I saw those grades I knew the E would be maths! There are at least a couple of kids in an A-level class who think they can coast their way through A-level maths like they probably did at GCSE and got a reasonable grade.

What did he get for maths GCSE? 7?

For resources and structuring his revision, this website would probably be useful: https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/newalevel.html

30 sets of topic questions - he could e.g. do 1 topic a day Mon-Fri and he'd basically have done the lot by the end of the summer.

If he has ASD traits then that often comes with issues with 'executive planning' which means he would need support with planning his timetable.

Meant to say mathsgenie work - he could watch the video if needed, attempt the questions and mark his answers as he goes along. Don't let him just watch videos, he needs to actively do the maths.

The doing and marking of questions as he does them is really important - if he gets a question wrong, he needs to know right away, and he needs to look at what he did to see if he can fix it.

Could he start again with Year 12 in September with a different set of A-Levels that he is more interested in or is there a different 6th Form at a different school nearby that he could switch too that offers alternative qualifications (btec etc)?
Everyone is entitled to 3 years of Post 16 education so repeating Year 12 is fine and loads of people do it.

He got a 7 in GCSE maths, yes, with work and tutoring. He worked about 3x as hard on maths as anything else. If only he could coast! (Although he has a bit this year to be honest). He doesn't really like Maths but wanted Physics and they required maths. I wish he could've done physics and something else. He's ok on the mechanics and even stats but not the pure.

Thanks for the tip. Will get him on that.

Having an interest/passion or another compelling reason to take a particular subject at A level is imperative and the interest bit even more so with ADHD. Tutoring through GCSE and a 7 really isn't A level maths territory unless the school teaching is dire. Maths and physics as a combo are a lot for even the most driven students. I think he needs to rethink alternatives and see if repeating Y12 with different subjects is an option, relook at alternative schools or colleges or look at apprenticeships. All that comes with the benefit of hindsight but honestly limping on through Y13 is not the answer nor is limping on into Y2 of a degree just because you're one year in. My thinking now is very much about the journey and not the destination where education and stages of life are concerned.

My thinking now is very much about the journey and not the destination where education and stages of life are concerned

I think that's always been my thinking. But his Asian Dad and the school system seem to be ALL about the destination. Since before A levels, it's all been about "What do you want to do?" And "How can you get there?". And not really been about, "What are you capable of doing?". I did really really try to inspire him last year with college ideas or different A levels, but he wasn't having the travel (he really hates public transport) and the huge change to his environment. I'm not sure it's changed.

I just don't know what to do right now. It feels too late to do an about-turn and go to college. Not that he'd be up for it. I think he's limped through school all the way since Reception, doing average all the time, so he's just quite used to it. But the impact on his self esteem is big. He could look at apprenticeships but it's a bit late to get one for September and he needs to be in education by then, right?

Sorry, I sound defeatist.

@MerryMarigold he doesn’t actually be in education if he doesn’t want to or can’t get an official apprenticeship.
He can go to work or do volunteer work. The government website says it’s an option “work or volunteer for a minimum of 20 hours a week while doing some training”. The “training” part is vague and not monitored in any way.
In theory getting a job and having to learn how to do that job would be “training”.
Nothing happens if a 17 year old “drops out” of school. Nothing (except Child Benefit and any other benefits you may receive due to having an under 18 in education stopping ) at all. No fines, no threats of court etc.
Not saying he should do this of course….but some 17 year olds are “done” with education and just want to get on with life - ie a job.
Although if he won’t use public transport he might struggle with that.

Does he have a pastoral tutor at school who could talk you and DS through his options?

Oh my goodness I can do relate

Dd really struggled to make a level choices. She had 9s in English gcse but refused to take that, started with humanities type subjects but then couple weeks in dropped one and started physics. She had triple science at GCSE and it was her lowest science grade. Her subject choices are now very odd and I have no idea where she can go from here

She started epq then quit. She doesn't like going into college and is ill a day every other week. She doesn't study.

Her mocks were bad but not bad enough to get pulled off course. No idea how to help her as she is in denial not interested in anything I say. Also had ADHD (on meds) and a recent asd diagnosis (though felt like that was CAMHS way of discharging us as they won't treat her anxiety etc if asd she didn't actually show high enough on diagnostic tests for ASD).

It's painful to watch

Thank you Polly. That sounds so similar to DS. How is your DD going with physics? Unusual combos aren't necessarily bad.

I've just been thinking through so many things and feeling sad for him. I think staying in school, the benefit is that he does have SOME social interaction, lunch time and free lessons. He talks about friends. I'm very worried he wouldn't have any if he moved (v socially awkward), even moving year group.

He's on work experience this week and next (with me) but we could pop in to school to talk things through with someone as we finish early on Mon and Tue. Not sure there is anyone pastoral... Maybe head of 6th form. He's not aware of any of these thoughts though. Just came to me today when I saw his unmotivated he was about the tutor.

I think you need to discuss his options with school. My concern would be that next year he will drop down to C, E, U and that really wouldn't be a good outcome. IME, students have to work hard to maintain grades between y12 and y13 in sciences, especially at the lower end.

If he was able to repeat y12 with different subjects he could still meet up with his friends at break and lunch and during free periods.

Does he have even a vague idea of what he wants to do after sixth form eg uni Vs apprenticeship Vs straight into work?

I think this is all down to ADHD? This is why he can’t organise himself, and procrastinated all the time.

What treatment is he getting? How is he supported at school? Has he got ADHD burnout?

I had a chat with him today. He is adamant he will be ok next year!! 'Everyone in his class got predicted low, he was in the middle, some were much worse, if he hadn't been ill and missed a whole question he'd have got a B, he actually likes maths, he likes it more than physics, there's nothing else he'd like to do more'. 🙄 This is one of his traits. He can be totally in denial but then gets extremely stressed when reality starts to hit. It's really hard to handle. I don't know what that's a symptom of, or if it's just a symptom of him.

He has a very VERY specific idea of what he wants to do after school. He wants an apprenticeship in car design. He doesn't want to go to uni and get the debt. Sadly these type of apprenticeships don't actually exist but he doesn't listen. I've looked at apprenticeships for about a year, he hasn't. It's another denial thing. There are a few uni options in this field... They will need some work, he would need to get together a portfolio. They tend to require 3Cs but place more emphasis on portfolio.

To be honest I just feel like giving up today. I hardly slept last night thinking through all the options, his googling potential courses, and I wanted to have a good, serious chat with him about his potential options - but it's all dismissed as everything is FINE with a million excuses for what went wrong in his exams. Somehow, magically he's going to do amazingly in September mocks - despite doing no work whatsoever today or yesterday. It's just going to happen. Until it doesn't and then we deal with the fall out.

I try and organise him! He definitely procrastinates. Support? He gets extra time. 20% I think. He doesn't get any treatment. This was diagnosed in Y3. I'm not sure how accurate it is. I think he gets the extra time based on other assessments - writing speed, ability to process questions. (They do their own assessments in school to determine it).

He may need help with organisation from school.

I had a lovely conversation recently with 17yo granddaughter. She started A levels at college, but absolutely hated it - said the stress teachers put on them made her feel ill. So she jacked it in and now earns good money working in a cafe. She isn’t opposed to studying but she admits she has no idea what she wants to do long term, and she’d rather be working steadily and earning a living while she figures it out. Once she does, if she needs A levels and a degree, she’ll do them later in life.

I think she’s got her head well screwed on. Maybe the OP’s son might consider other options (employment, apprenticeship, for example). Despite what most of MN seems to think, A levels and a degree are not the only route into the future.

The stress of A levels drove my 17 year old out too. She’s ASD.

I'd be happy if he'd face that and do something else but he thinks he'll be fine. I'd be happy for him to do anything which built his confidence and self esteem. Judging by his summer exams results combined with how stressed he was over GCSEs, next year will be a nightmare for him and therefore the whole family. He loses it when stressed, has massive meltdowns, shouts, breaks things (he even broke his hand). It's horrible for all of us and I'm so scared that's coming again. I have emailed the school to discuss things and I told him this. I said I'd rather be came to a meeting but I can go alone if he prefers. He went absolutely beserk at me this morning, there's no need for a meeting, he's doing really well, he was just ill, he's going to get an A in Maths, he hates me, he wishes me dead etc etc. It was horrible. I understand a bit of why, because he is so incredibly insecure that if I even suggest he might be better off doing something else that means he's failed and isn't clever enough. It's really hard to balance dealing with the grades in a realistic way, looking at other options with his deep insecurity.

That sounds awful. Have you applied for an EHCP. He sounds like he is really struggling.

Dd just refused to go anymore. She’s in ASD burnout, and really isn’t up to any academics at the moment.

@MerryMarigold that sounds awful, you are just trying to help him but he can't see it.

Re the maths, as noble (maths teacher) has said before, if they come in on a grade 7 at GCSE then they are most likely to come out with a C/D anyway, they don't have the foundational knowledge to build on. So it isn't that far fetched that he got an E. If he was motivated he could block out a timetable that means he goes back over his year 12 work for all subjects. But it sounds like he is going to need a lot of input from you with organising that.

There are apprenticeship fairs, we have one in a massive arena near to us, google and see what is available to you locally. My son's sixth form has a uni pathway and a world of work which is any job and any apprenticeship. They are an incredible resource, we recently had a parents' evening about both. See if there is any guidance from your son's. Also does he not have a student handbook? Mine did, again this lists who is their head of their house, who they go to if they need support and what support they offer etc. See if sixth form will provide one to you.

If he doesn't have his life figured out at 17 it isn't the end of the world. You know him best and I really hope he finds a way forward, whatever that may be.