Camden School for Girls - HELP!

[SameBoat2022]

HI, we just got a place at Camden School for Girls in Y7. We have chosen Queen's, which we love, but of course the offer is good. Any insight on CSG?

Thanks

I don't know anyone that's unhappy with it but than again the people I know that send their daughters there aren't ones that would admit it was a mistake. It's cramped but overall you'll save a lot of money, your DD will mix with very similar girls to ones at Queens and will likely get the same results. It depends if the queen's fees are a drop in the ocean or not. Be mindful that by the time your DD is in Y9 or 10 you'll be looking at fees of 10k a term.

Thanks. Yes, precisely

"your DD will mix with very similar girls to ones at Queens"

Very different cohorts - some parents at CSG will have similar backgrounds and income to those at Queens, but there is some deprived housing in CSG catchment and families on that income won't be paying the £24k fees at Queens (that will be higher than their entire household income in some cases). Although OP's daughter may of course opt to mix mainly with the girls with the Queens-type background.

Extracurricular opportunities at Queens are broader especially for sport - gymnastics, rugby, cross-country, netball, basketball. Used Paddington Rec, Finsbury Park for athletics, Marshall St pool, Frame for fitness classes. Travel opportunities are good - ski trip, music trips, sports tours. Language options are French, Spanish, Italian and Mandarin - at CSG the options are French or Spanish. The clubs offering is richer. At secondary it's easier to fit in extracurricular activities elsewhere if needed, and you can go on trips outside of school but it's convenient to have it on site and good to build friendships within the school. Uni options may be better if going to state, but that has to be balanced with the general under-funding and limitations of state facilities and staffing levels (check noblegiraffe's threads if you're unaware of the crisis in secondary schools right now - CSG isn't immune despite being supported by so many middle-class parents).

I think you just have to visit both and go with your gut instinct. I've known families who are happy at both schools and whichever option you take, the girls will be happy.

@liopwr "Although OP's daughter may of course opt to mix mainly with the girls with the Queens-type background."

It's very unusual for anything but this to happen. Sometimes it does, but it's rare.

Queen's Coll had more of a similar vibe to Camden pre-Frances Ramsay, from the lack of uniform to a liberal grown-up attitude to learning. It's since become more standardised with better exam results and more conventional cohorts, none of which is negative, just different. If you loved QC you may find CSG a tad uncomfortable, especially in a few years' time, when hormonal and academic pressures kick in. As always it depends on what you want and need from a school. CSG will be under heavy resource pressure, while you're providing the resources at QC. Both are competently run, so you get the package you choose.

@liopwr also, Camden offer ancient greek and Latin as well. Really good travel opportunities and tons of clubs. OP can you afford the travel opportunities at Queen's on top of fees? If not, than I wouldn't even take that into consideration.
I'd say music is probably better at Camden than at queen's but yes, the resources will be stretched. However, independent schools are stretched too. They're having to balance reasonable fee rises with true cost increase and a lot are swallowing the difference. Recruitment is a problem in both sectors. Obviously it'll be no where near the pressure state schools are under, but the pressure is there.
Sport will definitely be better at Queen's.

State sector in London has experienced an accelerated deterioration education resources, it is hard to foresee how to reverse the situation in the next few years.

But if Labour wins the elections they will put more financial pressure on private to find resources for state.

It won't help the situation in any time soon.

It really won't, not in London anyway. A lot of London independents aren't even charities anymore and even for those that are, what Labour is suggesting will take a long time to implement. It's really not that easy to do as it'll effect many areas of education, not just independent schools.
OP if you have the money and it won't make a massive massive difference to your lifestyle, just send her to Queens, give the Camden place to a child that needs it.

It’s a stretch but fair remark!

I really don't mean it like that. Even if you're a billionaire you're perfectly within your right to weigh up the pros and cons and send your child where you feel they'll do best and where your family will do best. An unhappy child has a huge impact on the home. Queens will have their fair share of problems, no school is ideal. I believe socially kids like your DD do better at schools like Camden where they're exposed to more diversity. But, state schools are in a dire state at the moment so no one would blame you if you decided to give it a miss.
I just meant it in the sense, if you're going back and forth and the only negative you're coming to with queen's is the cost, and the cost isn't a burden to you, just send her there. There will be lots of girls waiting to snap up that space in either school. Queens was very popular this year.

My DD is at CSG.

It is a good local school. As far as I can see that is all it is, certainly at Lower School level. The Sixth Form is a different beast.

I estimate that at least 20% of my DD year have left. The first ones to go were the children who had been at private school and whose parents had thought it was a private school for free. It is not and they were disappointed.Others have left to move to other local schools; Parli or AB; or had music places from somewhere remote and decided the commute was too much.

It offers a good all round education and doesn’t seem to tolerate bullying. I agree with the most recent Ofsted inspection and I don’t think they have had a handle on the progress of girls in the pre GCSE years. Communication was appalling but is improving. A lot of your experience will rest on your head of year.

My daughter is happy there. Crucially for her she will be able to take a mix of GCSEs that would not be available at other local state schools. This may change. I was educated in a state secondary school in the 80s. State education can get a lot worse.

ask yourself if you would send your daughter to Parli if you could. If yes, then CSG would suit. If not, I’d suggest staying with Queens.

And is unlikely to happen IMO.

I am deeply grateful to you all. All the best to you and your daughters.

@CSGCSG Out of interest, what year is your DD?

@Foxesandsquirrels because of the large number of girls leaving? I’m pretty sure it isn’t normal and am assuming it’s to do with Covid in some form or other.

I'm just curious as it's not normally a school that has much movement. The fans tend to be loyal even when unhappy. I suspect COVID and slashed budgets have played a part. Its quite easy for cracks to be hidden in schools like CSG with the cohort they have. My DD has a couple of friends there through Haringey music service and they all have tutors. It's the same in all schools though so the more students you have that can afford that, the less the cracks show. One of DDs friends older sisters did her GCSEs there last year. She got straight 9s and had a tutor for every subject. I agree with you re sixth form. It's a completely different school which I actually don't like. I feel like sixth form should kind of flow from the rest of the school. It feels like a completely different place at Camden.

I suspect private schools do not save you from tutoring

They 100% don't. When I said all schools, I meant all. Private and state. It happens even more in privates.

Yes, I didn’t really realise how much the sixth form isn’t the lower school. Or the lower school isn’t the sixth form. Someone on here said that it’s a large academic sixth form with a small school attached.

I don’t dislike the school. I feel fortunate that DD is there. I like that it doesn’t seem to be as liberal as some of the other local schools but it’s a world away from Mossbourne. I rate the new head. The teachers seem good, some great, but I get the impression they’re happy which is important. I just don’t get the drama about the school. Is it because people like to feel they’ve won something over others?

Yes, tutoring! Poor kids.

@Foxesandsquirrels while you’re here, you don’t know anything about Highgate Wood sixth form art department do you? I’ve seen some work and was quite impressed but I don’t know what the reputation is.

@CSGCSG I agree with you. I think it's a good, normal school and I wouldn't be sad if that's where DD had ended up, but equally I wouldn't be travelling an hour to get her there iyswim. I feel the same about Queens though.
I think the hype is a mixture of things. It used to be a beacon surrounded by failures. The surrounding schools have massively improved in the last 20 years. There is also the aspect of the N London colourstrings music mum who is in a competition and getting that music place is a win. These are the mums that sit in the music school waiting room after allocation day, listening to Tilly and Ella's mums bang on about how much they love the down to earth nature of Highgate Wood and they could never make their girls endure the journey to Camden so they're SO glad they didn't get in. When it's Sophie's mum's turn she will say quietly "oh Sophie's going to Camden, yea I worry about the journey but I didn't want to take it from her after all that". But she's really chuffed. They all tried of course, but only Sophie got in and they fell in love with Highgate Wood when they got the no. I don't want to sound like a bitch as I can understand these mums but that is a reason it's still got such a huge following. The opinions of these mums matter. They carry school marketing on their backs. It is also still riding on its old reputation when it very closely resembled a private. The new funding formulas and general underfunding has scoffed that up and there's only so much they can increase the PAN by. They have a pretty easy demographic. A handful of girls from poorer backgrounds and a large % from middle class families that are all tutoring, if not with a tutor than with the dad journalist or mum who has a maths degree. The demographic is far from your average N London state and that is a huge draw for the middle class parent. A private for free isn't just about resources, but also about social diversity, but that's a can of worms for another thread.

Sorry, I don't. The only kids I know that went/go to HGW aren't staying for sixth form. 2 I know of are moving to Woodhouse and Camden. But the kids I know are all through music and didn't get into Camden in Y7 so take that with a pinch of salt.

Thanks anyway Foxes.