Camden School for Girls - HELP!

[SameBoat2022]

HI, we just got a place at Camden School for Girls in Y7. We have chosen Queen's, which we love, but of course the offer is good. Any insight on CSG?

Thanks

@SameBoat2022 interesting, we meet again 😊
DD1 sat music aptitude test and passed, she’s number 4 on the waiting list by ability (from the original 8) and I don’t think that list will move now, though who knows, maybe in Sep. I have originally actually really liked the school and relative proximity but looking at the Ofsted it seems to say the same as an acquaintance whose DD just finished the school. More able girls in top streams get the worst teachers and least attention as there’s nothing to improve and the school concentrated on improvement which is a KPI. It trusts you’ll be doing the necessary as a parent if any in top stream needs improvement. If your DD is a very able independent learner she’d be fine. If not, homeschooling might be better. And it is more estate girls that above posters suggest, according to my acquaintance (which meant her DD struggled with a circle of friends)

“And it is more estate girls that above posters suggest, according to my acquaintance (which meant her DD struggled with a circle of friends”

"Percentage of children eligible for free school meals"

26.6% so means it is above the average of the UK level. It is probably not a school full of middle class family. Compared to some selective or popular comprehensive in north London FSM is less than 10%.

I don't know. It's a very small PAN and FSM figures really aren't that great at showing deprivation levels imo. FSM eligibility is really difficult and those families are cushioned by the benefits system in comparison to those who just about don't meet the threshold and really struggle. A lot of state schools are full of families like that and on paper they don't look like they have high deprivation levels. Your figure also includes those who have protected FSM so their situation may well be very different then when they qualified. I'm not saying their lives are easy by any stretch, but I think the biggest difference is the girls at Camden who aren't eligible for FSM are usually VERY wealthy. Normally it'll be FSM kids- poor but impossible eligibility mean no FSM kids- better off kids- middle class kids- rich kids. At CSG it feels a bit like FSM kids- poor but impossible eligibility means no FSM kids- rich kids. Not saying the rich kids are mean, but what you do socially out of school as a teen is really dependent on the amount of money you have, so those kids tend to stick together.

The PAN is 120, enough to draw some demographic statistically. Yes, Camden is a very socially divisive brough, a lot of FSM non eligible family will be very wealthy and opt of privates.

Yh that's tiny. Tiny enough for that huge difference to be very visible. Fortismere has far less FSM but I know it's a lot more socially diverse than CSG. A lot more space for those kids in the middle.

My biscuit was for use of the term Estate Girls and for the assumption that a child who doesn’t live on an estate can’t possibly be friends with one who does.

Estate here isn’t used as in the Holly Lodge Estate: an incredibly pricey estate near by, a gated community. It’s used as a short hand for social housing. Children who live in social housing can’t possibly have friends who aren’t. or, children who live in large homes couldn’t possibly want to be friends with children whose families live in social housing. It’s not even accurate as Camden has a large proportion of street property social housing. Your DD might be friends with a child living in a council house and Not. Even. Realise.

And I don’t actually see the cliques as being about kids from social housing and kids from multimillion pound homes. I see the cliques as being working class white British kids; working class kids of immigrant families; and kids from made wealth and kids from inherited wealth. It’s so Mitford!

it’s about the activities these girls can do but it’s about more than that. My DD noticed social
class for the first time at CSG. Not poor kids and rich kids but wc/Mc/uc and the English class system. I think she was late to the party as these things were obvious at her primary school ( local to CSG) but she was oblivious.

“My DD noticed social class for the first time at CSG. Not poor kids and rich kids but wc/Mc/uc and the English class system"

Seems to me a proper social diverse education environment for the mordern adolescent life. You won't get that in those social bubbles such as London Indies (including Queens) and selective grammars. Obviously, some parents like it and some others avoid it at a lot of cost.

Actually yes, I do think it should be good. But at lot of the same kids where at her state school. They mixed at prinary but not at secondary. And that’s the issue, the cliques. Is that teens, or what is the reason? I don’t know. But the pp made it sound as if of course these children couldn’t possibly mix.

In primary school kids don't tend to organise their own entertainment. Once they're teens they do. A girl on FSM isn't going to be able to go to Starbucks and Urban Outfitters every day after school or on weekends, or talk about her favourite dish in wasabi or itsu and get it as an after school snack. That's the case in all schools though and imo the difference is stark in CSG because of how small it is, there's no uniform and because the difference in lifestyles the girls have is very big. There's little space for a middle to buff it out.

Yes, maybe they are all reasons. It’s sad and I don’t know why I wasn’t expecting it. I suppose because it never occurred to me that children that age had disposable income! I assumed they’d share a bag of crisps in the park. I’m naive!

These kids will be getting £20 daily, easily.

Can I also say I was appalled by the use of the expression “estate girls”. Such awful, dismissive snobbery.

Thank you @Verite1 . I must be feeling very thin skinned at the moment as I found that post very upsetting.

@Verite1 didn’t mean it in derogatory way. English isn’t my first language, I come from a country with no class system.
I meant, there is an estate surrounding the school. There are girls who live on the estate. I guess you may be more eloquent than me so please define a name for a group of girls that come from a nearby estate 🙄
according to my acquaintance those girls stick together, form a large friendship group between themselves and are quite hostile to the girls who don’t come from that same estate.

@Frogusha Idk I think it's a bit silly to get offended at that wording. When you grow up on an estate that's what you call it and so do your friends. You ask what estate are you from or I live on X estate. Maybe saying girls from estates is better but that's just semantics. The townhouse girls and girls from local estates are pretty much how CSG is split. Yes lots are in social housing that's a flat inside a home but that's not the point. It's just semantics and it seems you have to walk on eggshells when describing the poorer girls. It's a free for all for the rich ones.

@Foxesandsquirrels thank you!

It is dehumanising language. You may not have intended it that way, and I understand that things can be translated poorly of English is not your first language. But in my view (and clearly others) it is.

Woah woah @Verite1 ! Dehumanising! You think to live on the estate = not possessing human qualities? People who want to get annoyed will always find plenty of things to get annoyed about.

If you can’t understand why referring to young girls as “estate girls” is offensive, then I’m afraid I can’t help you. But don’t worry - I’m sure you can do your best to avoid your DC mixing with them.

We went there and I loved the no-nonsense approach and the prospect of being part of a community of people fighting to keep the school afloat. My DD felt that the girls in her class were already cliquey and described them as ‘the influencer type’. The financial struggle is huge as you said, but my DD needs to see it as she needs to see the class system at play rather than the unnatural comfort of Queen’s girls.

I'm so confused OP. Was this for an in year place? If it's for a Y7 place in sept how did your DD already meet her class? Those don't get decided till Sept

I do not about timing but it looked like an induction 😳

Oh right, so you've accepted the place? Y6 induction is always cliquey, the girls kids to stick with who they already know.