Is it a good London comp - only 70% of pupils got into 6th form?

[Sirine1708]

Good morning, we are currently renting in SW6 but I'm looking at comps in cheaper areas around London where we could afford to buy 2-3 bedroom and first I was looking mostly at A-level results.

Then I decided to check what % of pupils actually get from secondary school to the 6th form.

Much to my surprise I've found out that less than 70% ks4 pupils from popular in Sutton Glenthorne and Greenshaw High got into school's own or any other 6th form - the same or less then in our local very average secondary.

www.find-school-performance-data.service.gov.uk/school/136914/glenthorne-high-school/secondary/pupil-destination

Also those school have less than 90% "happy" parents according to locrating, that is also quite low in comparison to other schools.

Do you think those numbers are worth paying attention to? My child is average in a good way :) he has no learning difficulties so far but doesn't stand out as gifted either.
So I would prefer school that pays attention not only to the top cohorts.

@Sirine1708 greenshaw has a very large y7 intake - 315 ish. Not sure what size sixth form is but imagine it's a fair bit smaller.

I know some pupils transferred to grammars and then actually came back to greenshaw in the first term.

Thanks everyone, previously I focused on the secondary-> 6th form at the same school path as the least stressfull for DS (and myself 😅), but now will take a closer look at GCSE and progress scores.

I can't imagine such numbers so far, my DS is now in state primary with below 20 kids in class and hardly 200 in the whole school.

<20 in the class is pretty unusual for state primaries. It's almost guaranteed his class sizes at secondary will be bigger.

At this stage, I wouldn't worry too much about post 16 destinations- a lot can change in 5 years.

Are you happy with what the school can offer him in Y7 (pastoral care, range of subjects, extra curricular, and so on)?

i live and work in the area and there is a fair amount of movement - between schools and off to college (of which there are a few in the area).

It seems as if Sutton is the area you can afford then I think the schools will be fine for you

We don't have inheritance money to put into 1,5 million houses, only our education and jobs, and have to start from a scratch in London - hope a lot of people in similar position will have to choose Sutton and it's not a bad thing

I'd say that's good. Schools have a legal requirement to introduce pupils to vocational courses too. Not everyone is suited to sixth form and I'm quite glad the stats are swaying in the direction of alternatives. When I was at school if you passed the assumption was A Levels in the sixth form. You weren't even invited to the assemblies about colleges.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl it's just too many primaries to choose from in our area and also another school got "Outstanding" status in 2018 and people come running there. I feel bad for our school because it doesn't deserve to be half- empty but it's better for the pupils I think.

I've been looking at school statistics, mumsnet reviews and house prices in the catchment so far, I'll get to pastoral care a bit later by the time open events start.

@Foxesandsquirrels the same was in my days - it was assumed that FE colleges are for people who can't or don't want to go to the Uni.

Your method is flawed because you are presuming that all the students wanted to stay on. There could be lots of reasons why this isn’t the case: good other options locally eg college which provide other options for education, poor area they might have many wanting apprenticeship instead, rich area might go to private sixth form, the capacity of the sixth form is smaller than the secondary part of the school, they insist on uniform etc etc!

@BungleandGeorge thanks, we came to the same conclusion here :) though private 6th form most likely will be shown in school's statistics.

Not in London but reasons dc from my dc school don't go onto 6 form in school (even though it gets the best results locally and is consistently in top 10-15% for England) are

1. Dc fancy a change,
2. Dc want to go to the college because there's a wider variety of courses not just alevels,
3. They didn't get English and or maths gcse,
4. They want to do an alevel not taught at 6th form,
5. They want the independence associated more with going to college,
6. They didn't get at least a 7 in their chosen subjects,
7. The school can now pick the best of the best because of the high consistent results, they therefore take more from other schools than in previous years.

As with many of the statistics there's too many variables, you'd ɓe best looking across a wide variety of statistics, so gcse and a level grades but also progress 8 scores, how many dc get excluded/behaviour issues. What are the criteria for going onto 6th form. Also will my child be happy, will they be emotionally supported too. What do parents think about the schools, are the staff approachable? There's no simple answer to these questions.

@Bookendortwo
that's right, and your #7 is what I was worried about starting this thread - that school doesn't teach own pupils well enough and then picks pupils with better results from other school.

To be honest there's a good reason they do this. There's still a lot of snobbery around not doing A Levels and parents massively underestimate how tough they are and schools have to pick up the pieces. Sixth form and A Levels really isn't suitable for most kids. If you look at the statistics, it's quite depressing how few kids who got a 7 in GCSE, go on to getting even a B at A level. Lots of vocational courses lead to uni. Russell groups even accept BTECs.

@Bookendortwo about behaviour issues - is statistics about exclusions available online?

Though when I see kids from different local secondaries coming back from school I don't need numbers to compare.

Also, for kids who struggle with the rigid rules of school, don't tend to improve in sixth form. A Levels in college are brilliant for them as there's far more freedom than you get in sixth form. Schools know this. I'm not saying all schools have this at the heart of their policies, but a lot do. Results are a reflection of their teaching and if they admit kids who just aren't suitable for them, no amount of teaching will make results good. This makes people think the sixth form is rubbish when actually it's that kids who are entirely unsuitable for it have been admitted.

@Bookendortwo I can't imagine doing even 7 GCSEs, I despised history and geography and no one would've made me to sit an exam.

Yes. Just Google suspension statistics. Private schools aren't included in this obviously. Suspensions are at an all time high, permanent exclusions lower than pre pandemic. Bear in mind this is off the back of all time low attendance rates so the numbers are really bad. These stats are from the end of last school year, it'll be far worse this year. Behaviour and attendance has gone to the pits. Schools aren't even suspending for small things, think proper fights, drugs, alcohol etc.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/permanent-exclusions-and-suspensions-in-england-spring-term-2021-to-2022

I think you can only get the school breakdown if you are a school but you can contact your LA for this info too. Also, just because some schools have good behaviour on the way home, doesn't mean it's the same inside school. It's becoming increasingly common for those super strict schools that get lots of hate on here, to have the best staffing levels. Those kids let it all out outside of school, but inside their behaviour is often impeccable.

@Sirine1708 I have no concerns about pastoral care at greenshaw. Oldest had some friendship issues in y7 tutor was really supportive.

Youngest has some additional needs and they have been absolutely great in breakouts, mentor etc.

I have heard mixed stuff about glenthorne - I believe it can be really strict around some stuff.

@christmastreefarm thanks for sharing, does each class have their own tutor who is present during lessons?

They all have a class tutor and have tutor time morning and afternoon. Morning tutor time is spent doing class reading. They carry the same tutor through their whole time at school so get to know them very well.

I know in Wandsworth lots of private school kids move to state for 6th firm. Cheaper for parents for one thing.

@Foxesandsquirrels thanks for the link! I just couldn't imagine one can get this statistics so easily.
I also heard some schools don't exclude pupils, pressuring parents to withdraw them instead. Wonder if they do it for the sake of statistics or what.

@hyggeb we would be happy to buy in Wandsworth/Putney because we wouldn't have to move primaries and flats are within our budget. But seems like Ashcroft is the best non-religious option around Putney and reviews are mixed.