Transfer from private to state at 11+

[curioscurio]

I don't want to incite one of those endless threads on privilege of public schools and immorality of private education. Both me and my husband are state educated and got our higher degrees entirely on scholarships. Both are foreigners, so British education system with (as it seems from outside) random assignment of places in state schools/oversubscription criteria/appeals/catchment areas seems too complicated a game to master for the outsiders. So, as the quality of education of our DD is of a paramount importance for us, we opted, at the cost of our living standards, for private eduction route until 11+ and grammar school after.

My DD is academic, sociable, empathic, very sensitive, with strong feelings on social justice and ecology. She can stay at her (selective) private London school until university and I am quite confident that the quality of her education will be good there. However, I am having issues with her growing in an orangery and her peer group not being diverse enough. Hence (plus the fact that the school fees are quite a burden for our finances) our plan is to try a grammar school at 11+ (we are in the catchment of HBS).

However, after lurking on mumsnet for a while I realised that this is not as simple as I thought and there seems to be an antipathy between people choosing private and state options. Thus, I became worried that my DD will be labelled "posh" (which she isn't, but her accent, unfortunately, is) and shunned by other children if moved to state education system.

Did anybody have an experience of such a move? How did your DC find the experience? Is there something that I am missing and should take into account when planning this move? Or am I just overcomplicating things?

I guess those are as rare as gold dust, though. And, to get in, one will basically need to live in the school's backyard. At least this is my impression from catchment area discussions -- am I wrong?

I might be wrong, of course. And I am sure there are still a lot of things I do not understand.

However, what I see is that people can get to their closest school that has spaces. Which is not necessarily the closest one (and, if the closest school is very coveted, it is almost sure it is not the closest one unless one lives basically in front of the school). So, as far as I understand how it works, one has to position their place to live carefully to get into the school of their choice and this is not a cheap enterprise (due to either rents or stamp duty).

OP, what year group is your DD in currently?

OP- there is no secret parents' grapevine.

You can pay for a school which enables you to choose features that you deem important.
You can see if your DC gets into HBS which gives you essentially a private school you don't have to pay for.
Both of these will be full of middle class children from affluent families and won't be that diverse.
Or you can go to your local school. Chances are your local school won't tick all your boxes, but it will give your child a peer group that is representative of the area you live in. Of course, if you live in a very homogenous area to start with, then the school will reflect that.

The perfect school does not exist. All schools have their pros and cons.

It's rare to find a comprehensive school that does not set. Being in the top set, or in a grammar, or in a private school does not guarantee good behaviour.

Your dd will be absolutely fine. Grammar is full of aspirational middle class families who can't afford private but will love that their offspring socialises with kids from 'good homes'.

Most grammar school pupils have been to leafy naice primaries and are usually well spoken. Wishing your clever daughter all the best in her new school.

In London the good state schools tend to lack diversity particularly socio economically as house prices or tutoring makes them prohibitive.

Unless OP lives somewhere like Hampstead where the state schools aren't reflective of the local area. Huge % of kids there got to private schools and the state school is pretty much just kids from the council estates from the outskirts of Hampstead itself.

A common issue of such discussion is mums are talking about grammar / private / state primary in a different context.

Grammar schools 10/20 years ago are not the same as now.

Non selective state school 10/20 years ago are not the same as now.

Schools outside London is not the same as in London, school in Grammar County is different to school in non Grammar County.

Let alone those oversea state selective schools outside the UK system. Under the different context the experience is just not comparable directly.

In London, in general I think if the DCs can get offer in those highly selective school, the same DCs will probably do as well as in the top set in a non state secondary school.

Grammar are state schools so the get the same funding per head as other state schools.

Some parents (particularly in London), choose Grammar over state schools are because they want to limit the downside risk, thinking that there are DCs may develop better academically in a high attainment environment with a similar group of peers. And hoping that teachers and students will be less disrupted compared to a more diverse school setting (academic, social and ethec aspect ). It create the opposite problem, as someone pointed out earlier, it has been a tendency for these super-selectives in London to create a mono setting rather than a more diverse and inclusive setting.

Probably it is true from some poster mentioned above it is just from one orangery to the other.

HBS will have plenty of wealthy/posh kids whose parents have been cramming them for the 11+ for years in order to avoid senior school fees. She won't be bullied for this specific thing (though every school has bullies) but you may not feel there's as much diversity as you were hoping for (yes there will be a bit more than at a private school but nothing near what you would have at a Comprehensive)

It is going depend a lot on where you live, OP. Some areas have a range of excellent comprehensives, some don’t.

There are several to choose from if you live in East Dulwich, far fewer if you live 5 mins down the road in Herne Hill, for example.

Look at your local comprehensives, talk to parents and finding out which ones are popular and why, and look at their admissions policies. If you don’t meet the criteria for anywhere decent, stay in the private school.

If you are really concerned, you can always increase your DD’s social circle by taking her to community clubs - Brownies, dance/gymnastics etc, where she will meet non-posh, or at least less-posh children.

I guess money buys advantage, wherever you choose to spend it, be that private school, tutoring for grammar entrance or house price premium to be in the catchment for the most sought after non-selective schools. So yes, if you want an excellent free education without the stress of 11+, you pay for that in your choice of house. That's not how it should be, but sadly how it is at the moment.

You don't always have to live in the catchment area to go to a grammar school. They frequently take bright children from outside.

@LBFseBrom "You don't always have to live in the catchment area to go to a grammar school. They frequently take bright children from outside."

For accuracy-you have to check what sort of grammar school you are talking about. In some areas, grammar schools take children who have passed the test, starting with the highest score and going down the list until the year is full. Theoretically, the highest scoring candidate could come from anywhere. Others have a catchment and a simple pass mark and everyone who lives in the catchment and passes gets a place. Aa few others have specific and individual criteria as well. It is incredibly important to check with the particular school you are interested in what the entry requirements are.

I was thinking of Bexley and Bromley areas where Newstead Woods, St Olaves, BETHS and Chislehurst and Sidcup are very popular with parents who want a grammar school place for their child. There is also an excellent comprehensive, Coopers.
;
Just to add, this is of academic interest only to me as mine is long time past being at school (and was offered a place at St Olaves but also at Colfe's and went there). I observe many younger families locally but not in the catchment areas of the schools mentioned, whose children go to the grammar schools.

You've expressed that sentiment really well, and I can relate to your situation. Sometimes, it can feel like most people in private schools, including my own at Eaton House, are earning significantly more, often exceeding 10k a month. This can be mentally challenging, especially when I'm receiving some financial support from a family member.

I've managed to hold my own and build good communications with some of the other mums, but it's clear that my income doesn't match up with what some others are earning. If I decide to enroll my child in a private school, it's likely that I'll be exploring options like scholarships, bursaries, or grammar schools. At the moment, I'm fortunate to have assistance with the fees, but I'm also working towards achieving financial stability, although I can't predict exactly what the future holds.

Hi there this has been quite a while since your post, how are you settling in with your situation? Would love to hear your thoughts - i relate to your situation.

Sometimes, it can feel like most people in private schools, including my own at Eaton House, are earning significantly more, often exceeding 10k a month. This can be mentally challenging, especially when I'm receiving some financial support from a family member.

I've managed to hold my own and build good communications with some of the other mums, but it's clear that my income doesn't match up with what some others are earning. If I decide to enroll my child in a private school, it's likely that I'll be exploring options like scholarships, bursaries, or grammar schools. I do diligent work with my child spending time with his education and go as far as being super sharp for dinnertime and bedtime. At the moment, I'm fortunate to have assistance with the fees, but I'm also working towards achieving financial stability which is going well slowly and steadily but also am in real thoughts you cannot predict exactly what the future holds.

So am in a situation where if I make it financially I may put my child in a private school because that's the alignment in life, it's the ideal situation because as my child would have been essentially raised in a private school it would make sense for him to go to one. Also, mothers don't put their children in private school just for the university, it's also to meet like-minded mothers and align their life or lifestyle, connections, and live their life.

The other option is to try the alternatives of scholarships, bursaries, and grammar school, and have a few state school friends who are conscious mothers.

@curioscurio it's important to remember that a tiny minority of children go to private school, so there will be posh kids in any school. He'll be fine.