Deregestering in year 9, starting fresh in year 10?

[WitsHaveEnded]

Am I mad? DD is in the brink of being permanently excluded. Awaiting ADHD diagnosis and her behaviour has just tanked year on year since starting seniors. High performing results focussed school. Late nearly every day, constantly skipping lessons, not a day goes by they aren't calling me at work to let me know. Met with headteacher 2 weeks ago who said she is 'unlike any child he has ever met', is polite and doesn't argue back but is quietly defiant. They're focusing and really driving home how it is affecting staff more than her. They gave her 4 weeks to sort it out.

Nothing is getting through to her. Her field of fucks is barren. Phone call again today to let me know she's truanted most lessons today in the toilets and that the paperwork to go before the Governors has been filled out.

So do I jump before we are pushed? She's so unhappy there, too much has happened now and she is 'that kid'. I'm considering deregestering her and homeschooling for the rest of the academic year, and applying for new schools to start in year 10. Is that even possible?

Managed move not an option, already refused that due to their suggestions of places - ofsted failing academies.

Anyone experienced similar or have any advice please? I'm so torn on what to do for the best. Thanks if you got this far!

Where I live a lot of teens switch schools for Year 10. Plus there are some schools (the UTCs) that only start at Year 10 or some colleges run specific 14 - 16 programs.
If you live in an area that has similar options and you can be fairly certain she can get a place in September then I say go for it.
Remove her from school. Focus on what's causing her behaviours, do some home learning on things she actually enjoys doing and is interested in. Get her mental health better.
The only issue is you may have missed the deadline for applying for Year 10 places so I am not sure how it would work.
Good luck.

Where would you start afresh from though if not through a MM?

And actually does the Ofsted matter? Go visit with an open mind.

Agree, don’t write off the schools based on their Ofsted’s. It sounds like the current school probably has a high Ofsted, and that isn’t exactly working out. They may be schools with more experience of dealing with a range of behaviours and being more flexible to facilitate engagement.

Moving now may also enable some input into GCSE choices, rather than being slotted into whichever subjects have space.

Why is she late to school?
Why is she refusing to go to any lessons?
Why would this be different in another school?

If you are doing this so that she isn't permanently excluded, the new school will ask for her records from the old school and will therefore know what happened previously.

The more important question is what do you and the school need to do to get her into lessons? What can you do as a parent to get her into school on time?
What can you do if she refuses a reasonable instruction to attend her lessons? What could the school do if she spends the day truanting all her classes?

Nothing stopping you applying to schools now. They don't take into account current school information because a) they can't access it and b) shouldn't even try to access it before admission.

It's also better to try and get her in whilst the options are still being finalised.

EHE won't help her or you, though. Whilst she's on roll at a school they have the obligation to keep taking action to find her somewhere else/go through procedure - take her out and it's not theirs or anybody else's problem anymore.

I'm just so lost with it all and don't have a clue what to do for the best. She has always struggled with school, the rigidity of it, the having to be on time, the organisation skills needed - now she is in seniors and left to her own devices she can't cope. They haven't put anything in place to help her. One teacher started writing post it notes with reminders on for her and that helped massively, but it can only be done if she gets to school on time. She dawdles of a morning, has no concept of time, is pretty much like a slow moving sloth despite me being behind her every step of the way explaining what to do next.

She is such a bright young girl, but mainstream education at this level is beyond her it seems.

I wouldn't be removing her to dodge the exclusion, I know they'll still see her records. It was more to try and do a factory reset with her and get her sorted and go back with a fresh head for year 10. Hopefully.

Funnily enough school have just called again st this hour to let me know that if she truants again tomorrow she will be getting suspended. I'm so tired of the fight.

As for what do I need to do as a parent to get her to school on time? I spend from 6am waking her up, and follow her around like a toddler until she is ready, and drop her off to the school doors every single day. In between getting her brother sorted and to school on time too.

What can I do if she truants? Well, she's permagrounded and has nothing left to lose. Her phone has been frozen due to her behaviour in school and on that. I've tried rewards, I've tried punishments, positive talks, she's been to counselling, tried it all.

What can the school do? Allow her to just truant and put her into inclusion the next day and issue a detention every day of the week. They've given up. And I'm close too. Bloody hard watching your kid piss away their future.

Does she have an EHCP?

If she's ND which you've indicated her behaviour is probably due to that - or at least due to the effects of her neurodiversity. So punishments won't work - that would be like punishing a kid with cerebral palsy for not walking in a straight line. Her high achieving school clearly isn't able to differentiate enough. One of the poorer ofsted ones may well have much more experience of ADHD/processing disorders/whatever she has and will have procedures and techniques they use regularly with others. A MM May well be the best course of action - it means her current school keeps the responsibility for her education and it will be in their interest to arrange something that works. Get in touch with these other schools and see what they can do.

In parallel you absolutely need to push for her ECHP - pay for an Ed Psych assessment if necessary.

What does she need to attend the lesson? I am not saying deregistering is a bad idea but unless something else changes the same thing will likely happen again. You may also have a child who knows that you are prepared to deregister her if she doesn't want to go. Can you home school her? Will she work independently? Will she sit down and watch videos and access online learning?

My DD is year 8 and has been moved to a behaviour unit for the rest of the school year to try to reset her. It's so hard. She is exactly like your child, truants and dawdles. She is angry and nasty to staff though. It's horrible because she is also 'that kid' and it breaks my heart. She is the most amazing loving girl but she just doesn't suit the school environment, she can't sit still and concentrate. She just won't let the teachers in to get to know her, they are the enemy. She doesn't want to be angry and is begging for help but until she is diagnosed with adhd she isn't going to get the help she needs. I have been signed off with anxiety in the past from the stress of it. I had to ask them to stop calling me because I was starting to panic at 2pm every day waiting for the call

Personally, I wouldn’t deregister now. Parents often find it easier (although not easy) to get support when DC remain on a schools roll, even when they can’t attend full time. When EHE it is easier for professionals to sweep DC’s needs under the carpet. Whereas, if DC remains in the system the LA have a duty to provide education even if DC can’t attend school.

Make sure any suspension or exclusion is formal. Rather than the school informally excluding DC. This is important as it provides evidence of unmet needs and means it can be challenged.

You should request an EHCNA, IPSEA have a model letter you can use.

ND is imo a certainty, however have now been waiting since Jan 22 for a Neurodevelopmental Assessment on the ADHD pathway, will likely go private to get that pushed through. Ed Psych assesment is a possibility too I will look into that. But right now without a diagnosis she can't access the relevant support. Even they have said the detentions don't work and she actually enjoys inclusions because she's in one spot and can do her days work in whatever order she wants.

Maybe moving school would be the best option but I worry that she will just latch on to the most welcoming group in any school - the toilet dwellers, and continue the pattern. She has also said she will outright refuse to attend if she gets moved. I've looked into the other schools nearby, there aren't many, mostly badly run academies or an all girls school that's reputation has been upheld since I was in school! Think police there daily. I can't trust her to get to a new school alone, and when I have to get her to a further away school, her brother to school and to work by 9am I can't in my head imagine how it could work besides waking her up at 4am. Just all a bloody mess!

@marrymeadam I'm sorry you're dealing with this too, it's so hard watching them become an entirely different person once they step foot through those doors.

@ThomasWasTortured thank you, will check their site now. I asked at the start of this year just for an IEP and that was outright refused. They offered her the chance to go in the sensory room before form each morning instead.

But right now without a diagnosis she can't access the relevant support.

Support in school is based on needs, not diagnosis. Obviously ADHD medication is a different matter though.

DD should have an IEP. Follow up verbal conversations with emails so you have a paper trail should you require it.

I would get the assessment done privately ASAP. Ask the assessor to consider burnout which is very common in children this age with unsupported ND, and to write a letter recommending she be signed off long term sick for the rest of the year.

Then I would move her to a new school to start Year 9 over again.

Even they have said the detentions don't work and she actually enjoys inclusions because she's in one spot and can do her days work in whatever order she wants.

Poor kid - sounds like the adults who should be responsible for her education have failed her so she's had to find her own solutions to her problems - which she has by self-excluding. That's a real positive - it's a shame no one recognises that (including you tbh though I recognise that's through frustration.)

she's in one spot and can do her days work in whatever order she wants.

If you have resources for private school, consider a Montessori school. The set up there is very much like this.

@titchy Jesus, never even considered that. That makes a lot of sense to me. But then I worry I'm just excusing her behaviour. Also aware that if it is all down to ND and isn't purely behavioural then that doesn't matter.

@ChopperC110P can she redo a year? I've asked this before of her current school as she is summer born and also as a solution to getting her away from the current friendship group and to redo all she has missed. She'd kill me adding another year on 😬

Yes you can de register her.
But, have you looked into an in year admission application?
The application form goes to your local authority admissions department who send it to your preferences, if these schools refuse (and they can only do so on quite narrow criteria) then it's likely the application would be referred to the fair access protocol.

If you did decide to de register, then you would make an in year admission application just before you wish her to return, but be very aware that places may not be available and is it going to be more difficult for her to slot back into school. Also remember that the school and local authority have no obligation for her education.

What have current school done? Have you or they sought advice from the local authority behaviour advice team? It's called different things in different areas, normally is within the SEN advisory teams and the child doesn't need an EHCP to access it. Apply for an EHCNA if it's not already happening, she needs this doing and the waiting list for assessment is unfortunately long in some local authorities (though they have a statutory obligation to fulfil the assessment in x amount of weeks)

If the school permanently exclude, they have to provide alternative education by the 6th day. This would normally be in a referral unit or such like, sometimes for children like your daughter, this can be beneficial as the unit can push through the EHCNA etc. Children who are permanently excluded are still the responsibility of the local authority and must be reintegrated into school, though obviously not the school she has been PEX from. The referral units also have much smaller classes.
Do any of the managed move schools have behaviour support/alternative provision units?
Have the current school looked at inclusion support or alternative provision (equine therapy, farms etc) Would they look at a college placement for year 10? There are more options than just a managed move.

"Her field of tucks is barren" 👏👏👏 Love that. She sounds like a fantastic character who is stuck in the wrong school.

In terms of a new start, do it now and she'll be fine for GCSE (I'm a secondary teacher) but if you wait until she's started GCSE courses it will be much harder for her to transition.

* @titchy* Jesus, never even considered that. That makes a lot of sense to me. But then I worry I'm just excusing her behaviour. Also aware that if it is all down to ND and isn't purely behavioural then that doesn't matter.

I worded that somewhat arsily so thank you for not jumping down my throat and considering it Genuinely though, if she does work well in isolation that's a really useful pointer to what will work for her - an Ed Psych would be invaluable in this.

Could you argue for the school to at least try this for a week - she goes in for registration then spends the rest of time other than breaks in a room with no one else.

Again an Ed Psych could suggest how the morning routine could be improved (different sounding alarms, minimising tasks like getting school bag ready maybe?)

Even they have said the detentions don't work and she actually enjoys inclusions because she's in one spot and can do her days work in whatever order she wants.

Could she spend the day in "Inclusion" then? Ask her if that would help? I know ds loved being in inclusion because it was quiet and much easier for him sensory wise.

If that gets her through the door and working, then maybe that's the answer. My dc's school had children who standardly worked in "inclusion" and they then worked with them to try and gently get them back into lessons. So they'd ask them their favourite lesson and start by trying to get them into that for half of the lesson, then they could come back to inclusion.

Does she have an exit pass for lessons (meaning she can show it and leave-they should give a place for them to go-without question) if she gets overwhelmed? One of mine used to struggle going into the lessons and would then report sick. When they gave them the exit pass then they had no problems going in, and very rarely used it. Just having the control to know that they could leave made the difference to their mental situation.

My concern with moving her is if you've got a little way along the diagnoses line, then you'll be reset back to zero at a new school.