Deregestering in year 9, starting fresh in year 10?

[WitsHaveEnded]

Am I mad? DD is in the brink of being permanently excluded. Awaiting ADHD diagnosis and her behaviour has just tanked year on year since starting seniors. High performing results focussed school. Late nearly every day, constantly skipping lessons, not a day goes by they aren't calling me at work to let me know. Met with headteacher 2 weeks ago who said she is 'unlike any child he has ever met', is polite and doesn't argue back but is quietly defiant. They're focusing and really driving home how it is affecting staff more than her. They gave her 4 weeks to sort it out.

Nothing is getting through to her. Her field of fucks is barren. Phone call again today to let me know she's truanted most lessons today in the toilets and that the paperwork to go before the Governors has been filled out.

So do I jump before we are pushed? She's so unhappy there, too much has happened now and she is 'that kid'. I'm considering deregestering her and homeschooling for the rest of the academic year, and applying for new schools to start in year 10. Is that even possible?

Managed move not an option, already refused that due to their suggestions of places - ofsted failing academies.

Anyone experienced similar or have any advice please? I'm so torn on what to do for the best. Thanks if you got this far!

Hang on a minute, a school has to make their form of education accessible to the child - especially a child with suspected SEN and on a pathway to diagnosis. If she functions well in inclusion (one space, her own pace etc) why aren’t they offering that as a solution rather than exclusion and detention?

I’m knee deep in similar with my own child and I recommend talking to the head of the SEN dept and taking with you recommendations of what she needs to succeed and what they need to do to make that happen and not how she needs to change to fit their school.

The Ed psych will be on your side and check your local county education department for someone with a title such as ‘inclusion’ and reach out to them for support. If she doesn’t have and EHCP you can apply for one as a parent, the forms will be on the county website and you can state how the school aren’t meeting her needs and the impact on her, her physical and mental health and impact to education and wellbeing.

The school are not meeting her needs at the moment nor are they trying to but trying to get her to change which might not be within her capabilities. Good luck - there’s a lot of angles left to fight this in you DV favour

Can you be sure that the school/s where you might want her to start in Y10 will have a place for her?

Suspension as a punishment for truancy?! Blimey.

Go and look at the other schools. In terms of state schools I don't think you are likely to get her into a "better" school if you just deregister her than if you do the managed move. One of those failing academies might just have a SEN room she'd be welcome to work from with a bucket more understanding, and less punitive treatment, than she'd get in inclusion. When you look for a place for Y10 you will likely only be offered the same schools as the MM options, without all the extra support and chance to return that the MM offers.

Some time out of school can be necessary but it can also make it really hard to go back, and it's harder to fight your corner when she's on no one's register. We've had a child go through great difficulty attending school and the light at the end of the tunnel was always that he'd be going somewhere different, somewhere better matched to his needs. That promise was a really important part of getting him back in. I think it's very risky to deregister without that plan in place, unless you are up for home schooling.

Is it appropriate to talk to a GP about whether she could be signed off sick for a while, so she gets the breathing space without having to give up her school place? She sounds very distressed.

Yes she can re-do a year. I wouldn’t do it in the same school because she will be a target for bullying. But yes, repeating a year is allowed for summer born and/or anyone who has missed a lot of a year due to illness, bereavement, injury, or anything else out of their control.

I agree with visit the other state schools and read the Ofsted reports. I had my DC go into a “special measures” school because the special measures were due to a failing sixth form, and poor infrastructure (no working toilets, roof leaks, unhygienic kitchen). On our visit we learned that the school had closed their sixth form and the report got around £2 million from the academy trust to renovate the school and the renovations were almost done. In short, my DC started there the same year Ofsted came back and gave them a “Good” rating.

So it can be worthwhile to give them a second look.

How is your relationship with her? Do you think she would tell you what the issues are? Is it possible for her to go back a year (I have friends whose children missed school through anxiety and were able to go back a year) and start at a new school? Would she benefit from a smaller environment? What does she enjoy? How does she see her life as an adult? I think if she could see a way for school to help her to create a life she would enjoy, then she would be more motivated.

Redoing the year (sometimes called 'backclassing) can only be achieved with agreement with a particular school. Not all schools will undertake this so it's important to ask the question but realise that it may not be possible

If she does not have an ehcp apply for one yourself now. If she is excluded would a pru be an option?

If OP requested an EHCNA and got an EHCP it wouldn’t require the school to agree if deceleration was included in F.

@ThomasWasTortured absolutely, though it's a lengthy process and I don't think OP has started on the EHCNA yet. I meant in ordinary circumstances schools don't have to agree to redoing the year.

@WitsHaveEnded please don't deregister. I know it all feels like a nightmare but your DD deserves an education that meets her needs.

Get that EHCNA done, too!

The risk of deregistering (as I see it) is that there’s no guarantee there’ll be a place available for Y10 in another school. OP’s daughter could therefore be left without a place for September. Of course, an ECHP naming a school would change that.

Managed move is a better temporary solution than homeschooling. You can make a few calls yourself too, better than the school doing it for you for obvious reasons. Try to get your DD invested in the choice, so that she regains control and regards consequences

You also need to find out whether there is a local agreement between schools about children returning from home education. In our local authority, they have to go back on roll at their previous school, although it can be dual roll with another school. In a neighbouring authority there is a protocol that if returning within 2 terms you go back to the school you came out of - you could check with school admissions or your home Ed team.

Bobblesock that doesn’t sound lawful.

@Bobblesock they can't have such a protocol since the admissions code changed. Before it was changed there were indeed local agreements, basically to try and stop families withdrawing their child for Elective home education and then trying to apply for a place in a different school sometimes 24 hours later. Now, schools aren't allowed to do that

It sounds like you don't really like any of the other schools in the local area? So what would your options be in September? Are you hoping she could go back to the same school? If it's the highest performing school in the area, they'll likely fill the place, and it's very unlikely she will get an ECHP before September.

I sort of think you have nothing to lose by trying a managed move, even if you don't think it's the best school, it might be a better, more supportive school for her.

Surely the only other option is to move to a completely new area and hope a "good" school has places in y10?

Usually the LEA keeps a list of places by year in each school, you could contact them via the council webpage? They are who you would submit transfer of schools application to anyway. It’s worth having a chat. Again, I would have her restart year 9 as she has missed most of it.

@ChopperC110P the local authority wouldn't be able to advise on places being available at a later date as the figures change daily. OP would need to submit an in year admission application from which if she is not offered a place she would be given the right of appeal to her preferences.

I really wouldn't de register. Discuss with current school SENCO what they can provide at the current time. Submit an EHCNA. If you feel that she needs a different school place, look closely at the managed move offers and consider making an in year admission application to schools you do prefer.

When we moved schools five years ago they were certainly able to advise me! Yes they won’t know exactly how many spaces will be available in September but they’d be the ones with the best guess. As it was we had a choice of two houses in two villages with fairly equal schools and the LEA advise was that village A was way over subscribed zero chance of a place, but village B had enough spaces in my children’s Years such that there was a reasonable chance of a space - and therefore no interruption to their education. They had a live database that all the schools updated weekly with # current spaces by Year and # projected spaces for the next school year. I don’t know if all LEAs do this, but it really helped us to know which house to put an offer in on.

@ChopperC110P unfortunately 5 years is a long time in school admissions and a new admissions code has come into place since then. Yes, they could advise on a broad chance of a space being available, but equally in the case of a child displaying challenging behaviour, a school can refuse under section 3.10 of the admissions code.

Thank you for all of your advice and thoughts everyone ❤️

I emailed the deputy head who has the most dealings with her/us yesterday following on from his call the night before. Outlined my concerns, offered some suggestions, and a deeper reasoning into why she behaves the way she does, reminded them that they have to make reasonable adjustments etc and told them I'll be self referring to an Ed Psych and for an ECHNA.

He emailed back last night and said he's meeting with another deputy tomorrow about the email and has asked me to come in early next week to dicuss my concerns further. If after that meeting I get the impression or am told that they aren't willing to budge in supporting her better then I will get the ball rolling with looking for another place. She absolutely doesn't want to leave though, suppose it must be scary being a teenage girl plopped into a brand new school when everyone is already established there.

Just all so frustrating, in the meetings they just pull up her classcharts info and reel off all the negatives, she then withdraws and says "I don't know" to every question asked to her like "why do you do this?" - then place another load of demands and timed trials upon her. That won't be happening again, enough is enough now. Telling a kid with a very likely SEN that they have 4 weeks to 'change' isn't constructive and is only knocking her confidence more each time. She was impeccably behaved yesterday and got a ton of positive points - came home, barely spoke and slept the evening away absolutely shattered. I'm going to have one last fight for them to finally offer proper support, and if they can't then we know where we stand and will move onwards and upwards hopefully.

I found our school backed off a bit when I started to take control of things myself. I’ve learned not to expect help from school unless I tell them they need to do it and explain why. You have to get knowledgeable about SEN law and processes and their own SEN and behaviour policies. Apply for the EHCPNA (I think I’m about to do this), join support groups (there are loads on FB and I’ve had great help from posters on the SEN boards here) and be prepared to fight for your daughter. Deregistering means the LA can wash their hands of you and the school has offloaded the “problem” but that’s not in your daughter’s best interests. We had similar experience with school reeling off misdemeanours and asking why he did things. Now I understand him better I can counter them and put it into the context of his adhd and therefore keep asking them what support they will offer in future to prevent this happening. Don’t let them off the hook. I feel my son is in the wrong school now, but he’s happy there (despite almost daily detentions!) with lots of friends - tricky - but means I have to try and make it a place he has a chance of doing better in.

@Ffffruit that's exactly how I feel. The thought of going to another school fills her with horror, she has friends there - some nice, some I'd rather she didn't have. I remember being her age and if I was told I was getting moved at the end of year 9 there's no way on this earth I'd have gone. I think the real battle is getting them to accept that her behaviour isn't just down to her not giving a shit but rather her feeling so overwhelmed with the institution she has been plonked and and expected to succeed with next to no support. And I ask myself why I'd even want her in a school like that in the first place, but I've witnessed the support that they can give to SEN children, and we so far have the understanding and support of the deputy head I emailed, so I hope with a bit more persistence she can access more of that support across the board which will make everyone's life easier. Because honestly I'm about to get bloody sacked if I have to run off to take one more school call from a particular teacher who just fancies a rant at me!

Urgh, waiting those calls is the worst. I found when I started framing my replies to school (email them back to keep records as you may need them) using Sen language and terminology then their approach towards me has changed, I felt like we were on a runaway train to exclusion before but now I’ve wrestled a bit of control of the wheel back (not sure I’ve got both hands on it yet!). Sometimes you need to state the bleeding obvious to the school as well to make them sit up and take action. Having a supportive teacher is a great start. Slowly we are changing the attitude amongst some teachers that my son isn’t just a PITA but a child with additional needs that needs their help to succeed.