Grammar School Appeal - Trafford Council

[SisterAnna]

Hi Everyone,

I was hoping for some direction prior to sending the appeal documentation and tackling the whole process.
We have applied to 4 schools with grammar school where my daughter passed being our 1st choice. Unfortunately were declined all 4 offers due to oversubscription criteria. We got a place in school in Manchester Council which was re-branded under new name following its closure in 2021 (school was inadequate in majority of categories). The situation is beyond desperate!!! 😩

I am preparing evidence to appeal to the grammar school based on the following and would appreciate MumsNet Panel members for any advice. It needs fine tuning and good presentation strategy but main points are below:

1. Daughter has passed the entrance exam with 370 marks, pass rate was 360 but due to such high amount of applications the cut off was actually 379 marks. However she demonstrated to be of grammar school standard as she passed above the required pass mark.

2. Mention the importance of religion to our family and moral and ethical alignment with the grammar school's ethos (school is of catholic faith).

3. From the young age DD had suspicion of development issues with possible mild form of autism and was under the Community Peadiatrician care between 2016-2017 when she was discharged. I am in possession of all medial letters stating this fact as well as supporting report from the childminder who looked after her for 2 years.
   The evidence is rather old and due to mild spectrum we found ways to manage her oversensitivity. She has not been tested since 2017. Is this still relevant as I don't have hard evidence she still suffers - which she does and will all her life.

4. Report from the school will be provided describing daughter's ability to learn and above the standard, her kind nature and attitude to work but also the issues she had to go through – even in year 5 she was still not coping with the noise and had to stay in Headteacher’s office to tackle the stress

5. Mention replacement school as inadequate in standard, same management board, all below the standard incl. SEND and not adequate for the child that is talented but also fragile – this will only be briefly described without trying to slam the school but more as a contra to what awaits DD if she goes to preferred school.

6. I wanted to submit a couple of pictures of art projects DD did at home – pastels and paints – she is making amazing progress and is very creative. The grammar school provides curriculum in arts and design and sports. Daughter excels in all those disciplines as well as learning.

7. Not sure if I should mention myself at all with FCCA and MBA degrees. The school ethos is to nurture young women to become strong and independent leaders. I would like to think that I can be a role model, that anything is possible if she works hard for it.

We are on waiting lists everywhere possible and rejected place in the replacement school (they still hold her place regardless).

Thank you all so much for taking time to read.

I'm no expert but my understanding is that you won't need to prove she is of grammar school material as she has passed the test. It is purely an oversubscription appeal.
You shouldn't run down the school you have been given but find reasons why the preferred school should admit her (things that the preferred school offers that the other one doesn't etc).
I would imagine your qualifications are irrelevant.
These are just my thoughts from what I've read on here. There are lots of experts who can advise you

I've just read that you rejected the original place. My understanding is that you should never do that as the local authority will feel it has fulfilled it's obligations & won't be obliged to offer you another place.

Thank you Nonameoclue, the grammar schools have slightly different appeal process, they require child to be of "grammar school standard" so it is relevant, she missed her place by 9 marks. I was thinking of asking to remark her exam but not sure when/if that is even allowed.

I have got a written email from Mcr Council stating her place is still reserved. I had a verbal confirmation of the same too. Nobody wants this school anyway!

Do you live in Trafford or Manchester OP?

We live in Manchester but applied to 3 schools in Trafford and 1 in Manchester. The replacement school is in Manchester.
Yes I know the catchment plays part role not for the grammar school (at least not as a category in itself, but Primary school was a trigger so in practice catchment always played the role).

So DC is at a primary in Trafford but you live in Manchester?

Hi ComeOnWill, we are Manchester residents but applied for secondary in Trafford. We virtually live on a boarder of TC. We could apply to both councils.

I am quite shocked you live in Manchester but have only applied to one school in your borough. All Trafford Grammars mainly priority Trafford postcodes and if you aren't in one you take a massive risk relying on distance.

There is already another post on MN about someone else who wants to appeal a Trafford grammar school. A good pass but too far away, there will be so many people like this. I can't imagine success rate for this type of appeal is high.

Have you spoken to Manchester City Council about what other schools have vacancies? Trying to find an alternative high school may be easier. I'm thinking about Didsbury High/CHS (the new one) that may not have filled?

Did your daughter attend a faith primary school?

You can apply for any school you like but if you're out of Borough then you're at a real disadvantage.

I am in Stockport but here it's pretty much impossible to get into a school if you're not a resident. Trafford Grammars are known to be super popular and I can't see there being many kids getting in who don't live in the LA.

I'd be very wary of pinning any hopes on this appeal and would speak to Mcr as soon as possible to see which schools in the area have places and get on some waiting lists too.

Hi OP, did your dd pass the 4 grammar and you are appealing all 4? You've mentioned Catholic so I'm guessing its Loreto.
If I remember correctly most of the grammars including Loreto take 1st 20 highest scores without considering catchment after that catchment rule apply. Your dd should be amongst the 1st 20 highest score. If for instance she is the 21st or 22nd highest, you might get a chance of review.

Do not mention anything negative about the allocated school or yourself.

Some of the things you mention sound very relevant to a potential appeal. Others don’t.

Remember you are appealing for the school you prefer, not against the school you’ve been allocated. You need to persuade the panel that the prejudice (ie detriment) to your child if they don’t get a place outweighs any prejudice to the school in having to cater for an extra pupil.

Only mention the autism if you have a current diagnosis and something to suggest that this school is particularly well-placed to support children with autism. Otherwise, the school is likely to argue and the panel is likely to agree that autism is not a rare condition and all schools will be able to provide appropriate support.

I suggest you focus on the art provision and anything else about the school that would particularly benefit your child (although you don’t need to submit your child’s drawings). Don’t focus on the Catholic ethos of the school (that’s your preference as a parent, not your child’s need); don’t complain about the allocated school being inadequate (for all you know, the panel members’ children might go there) and certainly don’t boast about your own academic and professional qualifications.

I understand your concerns about your DC’s education going forward @SisterAnna but I’m not afraid to say I have more sympathy with the Trafford residents who can’t get their kids into local schools, grammar and otherwise, and are forced to bus them out because of inflated numbers off out of area applicants.
Trafford residents fought long and hard to keep their 2 tier secondary school system, not because of snobby elitism (an accusation that’s invariably made by non Traffordians)- until they’re trying to get their DC into those same schools, of course- but because that system here delivers universally high educational standards across all our schools.
I have friends and family who’ve been here for generations whose higher-scoring than your DC can’t get into their local schools.
Rant done.

I couldn't agree with you more @WittynotPretty.

Dear Members, thank you for your comments which I take on board.
I struggle to understand how I can stress that that the Arts and Designs is the critical factor of my appeal whilst omitting all other points mentioned in first post. It could be an underlying factor for any appellant and does not make us in any way special.
How do we go about making this appeal different/stronger to others I sill must ask?
Also does anyone know if I could require remarking of the entrance test? Or maybe it is a standard procedure in any appeal?
Thank you all.

I appealed (and won) for a place in a grammar school and it was a long time ago so things may have changed but one thing I did was go through the schools prospectus and ofsted reports and found quotes corresponding to things my child especially needed. In your case I’d be looking for things they say that would support your dd’s particular need for a school that will cater for her talent in art, her need for quiet space and help to cope with stress.

Don’t mention your own degrees or your desire for your dd to grow up as strong and independent woman. Nearly everyone wants good things for their children so that doesn’t make you any different to anyone else. The same goes for mentioning the other school. Other people’s children will have to go there so from an independent point of view, if it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for your dd too.

WittynotPretty and fivepies, I agree that the reality of who the residents of Trafford currently are is changing in front of your eyes. The system of 11+ exists and it gives changes as well as takes away possibilities from families living even in front of the schools.

Honestly, if you live in Manchester I don’t think you have much chance unfortunately.

The criteria is very clear that the preference is for Trafford residents (hence why the house prices are so much higher!). Anyone getting in outside of trafford is very lucky or has a very high score, it’s absolutely not the default - it’s the exception.

You’re best off appealing to a Manchester school.

(on a side note, having attended Loreto, they do not care at all about art and design - they care about academic results).

MelchiorsMistress thank you, amazing post and giving me hope. I am going through the codes and policies to even get a start somewhere. Trying to gain an independent view puts a new angle.
I would never blab about me, it was an idea someone pushed which I thought was worth checking with you guys. One tries anything.
Many thanks.

1. Is fine
2. Fair enough
3. Very limited benefit - don't dwell on it. You are saying that she was possibly suspected of mild autism from 6-7 years ago but discharged and no further pursuit of diagnosis.
4. Kind nature and attitude to work shouldn't come in to it. The not coping may be relevant if you can get a letter from the school and if you can demonstrate that the preferred school would be better able to deal with this.
5. Avoid, avoid, avoid. No good thing can come of criticising the school. None. Instead, turn each criticism of offered school into a positive point about preferred school.
6. No. The panel can't be expected to judge art work and artistic potential. Instead, you can emphasise the quality of art provision at preferred school and your DD's love of art.
7. Absolutely, categorically, no. It's contrary to the admissions code to take parental status into account in admissions and the panel can not give any regard to your ability to support the school in any way.

Mushroo thank you for your comment, especially as an Alumna of Loreto. We will try and explore all avenues possible.
I think I was caught off guard with her pass rate, I know I could and should have applied for more schools but now all there is left is to fight even if all say it is pointless.

@Lougle incredibly helpful and to the point. Can I please ask if you have personal experience with the appeals panel? You sound very experienced. Forgive my ignorance, I am new here :)

@SisterAnna I used to sit on appeal panels.

@Lougle thank you for contributing, it means a lot.
Would you know if I can request a remarking of the paper? Or would that burn all bridges due to lack of trust in LA's abilities to do their job? ;)