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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

What's wrong with hothousing?

188 replies

justanotherdaduser · 02/03/2023 07:50

That's it really. Hothousing is often mentioned here in a derogatory tone and I was wondering why people dislike it?

OP posts:
ThunderDad · 08/04/2023 17:36

Violinist64 · 08/04/2023 14:06

@ThunderDad, why are you so concerned about secondary school when your son is not yet three? Enjoy him as he is now, encourage him in his interests as he grows older and let him enjoy being a child. He may/may not be grammar school calibre when he is older but it actually doesn’t matter very much. Your job at the moment is to lovingly guide him to reach his potential but not force him. He will probably turn out very differently from what you imagine now but it will be a very exciting journey.

Honestly though I'm actually thinking more about primary school. Possibly it's even more vital to have single-sex education at the start than at the end. I know this isn't a politically correct opinion but a lot of what I've seen and what I intuit makes me feel this way. It just sort of makes sense.

Dyslexicwonder · 08/04/2023 17:46

ThunderDad · 08/04/2023 17:36

Honestly though I'm actually thinking more about primary school. Possibly it's even more vital to have single-sex education at the start than at the end. I know this isn't a politically correct opinion but a lot of what I've seen and what I intuit makes me feel this way. It just sort of makes sense.

A single sex primary school ? In the UK ? OK good luck with that, I am not aware of any such institution.

ThunderDad · 08/04/2023 17:47

Dyslexicwonder · 08/04/2023 17:46

A single sex primary school ? In the UK ? OK good luck with that, I am not aware of any such institution.

Indeed. But they used to be quite common. There are a miniscule number left including Wakefield Grammar.

Dyslexicwonder · 08/04/2023 17:47

Really from reception ? Why ?

Dyslexicwonder · 08/04/2023 17:49

ThunderDad · 08/04/2023 17:47

Indeed. But they used to be quite common. There are a miniscule number left including Wakefield Grammar.

Not according to this
https://wgsf.org.uk/

Home Page - Wakefield Grammar School Foundation

https://wgsf.org.uk

ThunderDad · 08/04/2023 18:00

Dyslexicwonder · 08/04/2023 17:49

Not according to this
https://wgsf.org.uk/

Well 7+ is the as good as is available it seems.

cantkeepawayforever · 08/04/2023 18:02

All girls pre-prep / prep / primary is not that rare ime - traditionally 11+ girls’ schools have opened provision for younger years if it did not exist already.

All boys is rare ime - traditional boys’ schools have gone co-ed.

dew141 · 08/04/2023 18:04

A single sex primary school ? In the UK ? OK good luck with that, I am not aware of any such institution.

My kids went to a boys single sex primary school (admittedly private). Most of the prep schools near us are single sex.

SoupDragon · 08/04/2023 18:07

ThunderDad · 07/04/2023 21:31

There are very few independent boys schools remaining in the UK, but quite a few independent girls schools. Where I live in York, there are two independent girls schools and no boys schools. The last of them were made mixed in recent decades.

When we consider the effects of mixed versus single sex education, it is helpful to put politics aside and look at students' achieved grades. The grades are the most objective measure of educational outcome. It would also be interesting to look at measures such as earnings at ages 30 and 40 depending on school type attended.

I've also noticed that a very considerable number of the successful men I know personally and who are known by the general public went to boys' schools. Can't help noticing that they seem to produce great results.

Let's put our politics aside and consider the merits of boys schools. It is sad that parents generally no longer have the choice to send their son to one since they have mostly been turned mixed.

Check out the wiki lists below which illustrate how few boys' schools are left compared to girls' schools. Why is this? Politics?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_girls%27_schools_in_the_United_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boys%27_schools_in_the_United_Kingdom

The school my DSs attended isn't on that list, neither is the other boys's hook in the foundation so it's clearly incomplete.

SoupDragon · 08/04/2023 18:07

(Hook = school, obviously 🙄)

wasacasa · 08/04/2023 18:33

Any decent single sex school will have regular socials and meet ups with other local schools of a different sex. My son went to an all boys school (which he complains about now because he likes girls 🤷🏻‍♀️😀)

The important thing is to encourage attendance at the social events and encourage out of school relationships and friendship groups to get a good balance.

I suspect some of the pro hothousing parents on here would discourage socialising as it would take away from study time and that is where they will mess up their children’s lives.

ReneeX · 08/04/2023 19:11

@Dyslexicwonder

There are dozens of single sex schools in UK: private, grammar, catholic and more.
Are you new to this country?

waterlego · 08/04/2023 20:14

@Intergalacticcatharsis, really interesting about music. One of my best friends didn’t pick up any instruments at all until she was 12/13. She came from a non-pushy and non-musical family but found her own passion for music. By the time we left Year 11, she was playing three instruments very competently, and was very rapidly moving up through the Grades in all three instruments. She went on to do music A Level and then got a place at the Royal College of Music. While she hasn’t achieved worldwide fame (which I don’t think she wanted anyway), she has always worked in music, both teaching and performing and absolutely loves it. She’s a very talented professional musician and it’s mostly her own hard work that got her there. Her parents absolutely never pushed or even suggested music (but were of course enormously proud of her achievements).

Dyslexicwonder · 08/04/2023 20:18

ReneeX · 08/04/2023 19:11

@Dyslexicwonder

There are dozens of single sex schools in UK: private, grammar, catholic and more.
Are you new to this country?

Not at all, myself, my husband, DS and Dd all attended single sex schools. But from 11 or in DH's case 13 not from 4.

rattlinbog · 08/04/2023 22:36

There are no single sex state primaries

ReneeX · 08/04/2023 22:57

@Dyslexicwonder I see, now I know what you mean. I believe there are some boarding single sex primaries. But I wouldn't be able if they are at the Infant age of 4/5-7 or Junior 7-11

londontimes · 09/04/2023 09:26

Really enjoying reading this thread.

I thought "Primary" was always used for state schools and "pre prep" or "prep" for privates but I might be mistaken.

cantkeepawayforever · 09/04/2023 10:46

Traditionally, prep went up to 13. So private schools that finished at 11 - to feed girls’ schools or into local grammars or faith schools etc - tended to be called primaries.

Fluffyslippersohyes · 09/04/2023 13:29

@ThunderDad genuine question, why don’t you want your son to read books by feminist writers? What was it about Margaret Atwood that caused such a strong reaction? Genuinely interested to know.

Elij00 · 09/04/2023 18:33

The schools with the best boys results in the UK are All Boys till at least the age of 16 so it's fair to say them being educated in an all boys environment has done them no harm whatsoever.

ReneeX · 09/04/2023 18:42

Elij00 · 09/04/2023 18:33

The schools with the best boys results in the UK are All Boys till at least the age of 16 so it's fair to say them being educated in an all boys environment has done them no harm whatsoever.

Is it all only about educational results? I have included a link to a setious study on above how it impacts their confidence around opposite sex

Ladybowes · 09/04/2023 19:11

Elij00 · 09/04/2023 18:33

The schools with the best boys results in the UK are All Boys till at least the age of 16 so it's fair to say them being educated in an all boys environment has done them no harm whatsoever.

This may be true but I would suggest that is because these school are either grammar schools so they cream the brightest away from the state mixed sex schools or they are private and therefore have parents that can afford to get tutors when their children struggle...nothing necessarily to do with them being single sex.

ThunderDad · 09/04/2023 22:27

Fluffyslippersohyes · 09/04/2023 13:29

@ThunderDad genuine question, why don’t you want your son to read books by feminist writers? What was it about Margaret Atwood that caused such a strong reaction? Genuinely interested to know.

I was kind of joking about that. We read Cat's Eye at school and it was actually alright as a book. Wasn't so keen on Handmaid's Tale which I read more recently.

I wouldn't want my son to read books with any kind of political messaging until he is old enough to understand the nature of propaganda. It is very sad to see that in Waterstones there are so many books for very young children and teens which are steeped in ideology. I think it is deeply unhealthy.

user1477391263 · 09/04/2023 23:35

The biggest gaps between boys’ and girls’ performances, globally, are found in a) Nordic countries (very gender equal, huge efforts made not to distinguish between boys and girls at all if possible, and I think single-sex education is pretty much unheard of nowadays), and b) Middle Eastern countries (very sexist, constant casual differentiation between boys and girls, and mostly single-sex schools!)

Boys underperform compared to girls in basically all societies where girls have equal access to schooling (except in maths at the higher levels, where boys often catch up and then outperform girls at later ages). But in terms of where the gaps are big vs where they are small, the factors making the difference do not seem to be where people think they are.

One issue with mass-scale single sex schooling at the state level is that it would be harder to find good teachers without accepting pay scale differentials where male teachers are paid more. Women would be reluctant to work in all-boys’ state schools, and men might also demand more “danger money” (!) as it were, before being prepared to work in them. Yet paying male teachers more, or paying teachers of boys’ schools more, would be politically explosive and create accusations of sexism. In the Middle East, one of several factors why boys do so poorly compared with their sisters, is because they can’t get good reliable male teachers; the wages aren’t considered high enough for the difficulty of managing all-boys classes, and men are a lot less likely than women to be second-income earners who are in teaching because they are the caring, socially aware type.

Having single-sex schools at the macro level, with lots of state single sex schools, is easier to do in societies like Singapore where very harsh discipline for boys (including corporal punishment) is normal and widely accepted, as it makes boys easier to manage. Few people in the UK would be OK with this nowadays! Mumsnet is full of posters flipping out because they didn’t like the way their child looked in the photographs taken at the school residential etc; no way would they be OK with their boys being disciplined the way they are in places like Singapore.

Elij00 · 10/04/2023 01:35

ReneeX · 09/04/2023 18:42

Is it all only about educational results? I have included a link to a setious study on above how it impacts their confidence around opposite sex

Can you show me the link to the study please? There are thousands if not millions of men that have gone through Single sex schools without having any of their confidence dented.