With Oxbridge taking less and less private school students, is it still worth it??

[SillySmart]

stats shows that the number of private educated students Oxbridge enrolled has dropped 1/3 in the past 5 years. Any thoughts?

Most children I know who go to private school are average attainers, even slightly below average at primary school whose parents want to give them a bit of help. They/their parents aren’t considering Oxbridge. They want a decent, respected uni. I’m not in a grammar area. High attainers go to comprehensives.

There's more good universities than oxbridge! In fact for some courses they are really far from the best. My DD's course was ranked second in the world behind MIT neither not Oxford or Cambridge even offer such cutting edge courses

But do remember contextual offers aren't made for grammar schools either usually!

Oxford will only take the best of the best from state schools yet in my experience some fairly average candidates from the most elite schools so yes this is a good thing if you're worried about educational standards. If you're concerned about social mobility and equality, it's still bloody hard going being a state school kid at Oxbridge.

Whether they ‘work hard or not’ is moot. The springboard they start off on is so gigantic compared to that of a comprehensive student that their ‘hard work’ will get them much further than a comp student who puts in the same amount of ‘hard work’.

This reminds me of the thread a while back complaining about Oxbridge doing outreach programs in comprehensives and ‘disadvantaging private school students’.

It is mind boggling that these posters lack the self awareness to see this isn’t discrimination or disadvantage, it’s equity - but as the saying goes when you’re privileged, equality feels like discrimination.

Here it is…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/4536860-have-i-done-my-poor-kid-a-grave-disservice-in-sending-him-to-an-independent-school

@cosmiccosmos hopefully all non selective state schools will start looking at their brightest kids as having a real chance. There is loads going on with Oxbridge that teachers can access for their pupils - lots of it just for state educated students - but they have to know about it and they have to give their students the aspiration in the first place if it's not coming from the kids themselves. The 'it's not for us' attitude is still prevalent.

They probably need the equivalent of an 11+ exam at the end of sixth form that everyone takes that tests for natural intelligence alongside a 'subject' test paper. No interviews and school blind. I wonder what that would throw up

There’s a general feeling among families I know here who send their kids to private school that all universities are discriminating against them

Well, they could always send their children to state school to avoid this?

When you're used to privilege, equality feels like discrimination.

And I don't even think the Oxbridge situation has reached equality yet 😄🙈.

Some comments don't reflect well on private school parents for sure. However these threads that talk about 'state' schools as if all the students are disadvantaged also reflect poorly. There are thousands of state school parents who use their money to get into a desirable state school area, pay for tutors, try and 'emulate' what they perceive their kids to be 'missing out' on.

Frankly I think both type of parent don't appreciate and know their privilege -they as bad as each other.

Whilst the ps bias is wrong and should be corrected, to pretend that the current methods are good enough is laughable.

I live near a very leafy town full of very wealthy people who extol the virtues of the local academy, presumably having paid ££££ for their houses and duly paying their 'top up' to the academy for better facilities etc. for some reason this school gets contextual offers with the local joke being they all go to X uni because if this. That is also privilege but Is evidently ok.

Let's face it folks the majority will take and do anything to get their kids an advantage. Some of us would like to see the children that most need fit get that advantage.

But top universities still take a disproportionately large amount of private school kids.

There’s a general feeling among families I know here who send their kids to private school that all universities are discriminating against them

Really?
Not my feeling here at all.

But then the reason people have chosen to use a private school is probably different than in other areas. We have a non grammar school (the current private WAS our local grammar school)
Our local state schools are crap. Think something along the lines of ‘here is this well recognised school in the area. We’ve had to split some classes in half because they were so unmanageable with just one teacher…’

So the choice to go private has more to do with the culture/atmosphere in the school, out of classroom opportunities and for us the fact that dc1 wasn’t bullied anymore and dc2 finally found people he could relate to.

Tbh if the only reason you are sending a child to a private school is because of Oxbridge when they could have gone to a grammar school… I think it’s crazy. Both because they won’t get more at a private school re their schooling vs grammar and because you’d have a better use of the £10k+ a year you’d spend (putting it in a saving account for your dcs to buy their first house would be a better use!)

@Hercisback

i didn't say they didn't have some advantages, though if they went to state school their parents could still buy the more expensive calculator.

but it's unfair to say they don't work hard to deserve & earn there place at a university.

@redskydelight
But that is what they do. But state school only for A levels so best of both worlds!
Where I live in London it’s often ‘state to eight’ until Y3 and then state again for 6th form.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? (I haven’t done this myself btw - we’re state all the way)

Why the emphasis on Oxbridge? I’m baffled, really. I know lots of people who went -my DH did - and they have normal jobs - a lot of teachers, one is a midwife, a few in the media. None earns a mega salary. My DH earns 25k, as an example. All are clever, interesting people, but attending Oxbridge hasn’t been a boost to their careers.

They do ask and will know where you went to Secondary school. Our local private school sent a fair few to Oxford/Cambridge this year. The support on offer is amazing, nothing like my state comp where my teachers didn’t even know I applied or interviewed at Oxford.

It’s not just about academics at a Private School Vs Grammar School. Our DD could have got into the Grammar School but she’s also musical and sporty and the private school came out tops. Our local Grammar school is amazing though and if we fall on hard(er) times we’ll be seeking to send her there.

This is true too, a lot of extremely bright, highly qualified state school students are simply not attracted to oxbridge. It depends on the degree subject, of course, they are more highly thought of in humanities subjects than in science, particularly any form of applied science

@MyriadOfTravels

Yes the situation here in SW London may be somewhat unique in that many of the state schools here are excellent so people who can afford private schooling do have a genuine choice as regards academics.

Many of my friends when asked why they chose private say it was just for the overall environment; nice buildings, grounds, sports facilities etc than specifically the academics. Great if you can afford to pay just for that!

There is also the element of kudos for managing to get into one of the very academically selective private schools here (though few will admit that played a part in their choice!).

but they dont have to work AS hard, or simultaneously battle against many of the disadvantages while working hard, that state school students do

@Moonicorn

it's mind boggling that posters lack the self awareness to say kids working hard don't deserve or earn their places at university.

I didn't say I had an issue with non private school getting a place with
lower grades, what I take in umbridge with is people saying the kids working hard don't deserve or earn their places. they put in long hours at school and at home, most hours in on Saturdays too & have prep on Sundays plus a couple of hours prep most nights, after getting home much later. They have to put the work in to get the grades! It's grossly unfair to say they don't deserve or earn their places.

On what basis do you think they don't have to work AS hard?

I had an awful experience at state school. Bullying, ridiculed for wanting to learn, some really rough kids with violence, lots of smoking etc. The teaching was dire and some of the teachers preferred to chat then teach. Swathes of the syllabus simply wasn’t taught in maths and the education in general was massively dumbed down. I was incredibly bored but didn’t have the confidence to study alone as I thought I was stupid. There was no way I could ever bridge the gap to be able to get into such an exclusive university as Oxbridge albeit I have a degree.

Dd didn’t want to go to private secondary despite the offer being there. However, she and a few of her friends subsequently left state secondary and are far far happier. They were at different secondary schools and those at dd’s school in particular hated their ofsted outstanding state comprehensive school.

They all went to different private schools as we could pick the ones best suited to their needs. Incidentally none of them are ultra competitive. Dd’s school is probably requires the highest level academically to be admitted but is a far cry from the large, more competitive schools, which didn’t appeal to my dd.

One of dd’s friends, who was school refusing is now going every day, in a very small, nurturing environment.

This @SillySmart is why my dd has been in private school from yr9. Not to get her into Oxbridge. If your dc gets on at grammar, that’s fine. They’ll be massively advantaged anyway already being in a selective school.

Well it's much harder to 'work hard' when you don't have a desk of your own or a fast wifi connection or your own computer or a quiet place to study or you're cold or you've got parents who are worried about paying the rent.

For example.

my children go to private school. We are not aiming for oxbridge or Cambridge not because of ability. Not everyone at private schools want these universities. There is now a huge increase in numbers going to overseas universities such as USA. That’s our goal too.