With Oxbridge taking less and less private school students, is it still worth it??

[SillySmart]

stats shows that the number of private educated students Oxbridge enrolled has dropped 1/3 in the past 5 years. Any thoughts?

Even the 10 9s is very limited.

Not necessarily true.

“Even the 10 9s is very limited.”

It is not limited in superselective private and grammar schools. There are always some kids up to 10-20 who do achieve this. So if we then say those kids are not great or extraordinary because we need to compare them to their school average, I believe we are making a mistake. Because they probably are all gifted in a top 2-5% kind of way. That is the whole point of this thread. In fact, it may be harder to get 10-11 9s at GCSE than get 3 A stars, at least on a national level?

I really don't think that going to state for 6th form is fooling anyone.
The criteria for a contextual offer that I have seen from most unis include being state educated throughout your education and they have lists of 'aspiring schools' which the likes of Hills Rd 6th form in Cambridge (the popular choice for ex private kids) are not on but Long Road (the looked down upon choice) is.

It is extraordinary, but also, frankly, obsessive to want to rack up that many exams. It’s more like a GCSE and A-level collector’s obsession than a genius’s desire to make sense of the world around them, or an original thinker’s way of making their mark on the world. She is showing herself to be good at clearing hurdles of others’ creation; time will tell whether she can translate that into ideas and goals of her own creation, rather than amassing more collectors’ items. It is undeniable she is clever, hard working and motivated, however.

It's not worth any of it at all in my view

I was privately educated on a scholarship (not in a very posh selective place but still) and went to Oxbridge (rare occurrence from my school, no-one had been for years) to study a sought after subject and it was not enough of an amazing experience for me to want it for my kids. I enjoyed it but I would have enjoyed other courses too. I cannot fathom the level of over investment of some people in their kids education

If you are a parent who is interested in their DC education, reads to them, talks to them about the world then you are already giving them all the advantages you need to. You do not need to pay for private education, nor for tutoring nor move to a grammar school area. Obviously these places get stellar results they only take pupils who would always get stellar results and they weed out anyone who won't make it and even make you pay for it. What is the value added of any of these places? It must be tiny as there is no value they could actually add as the kids are all so clever anyway. It all seems like Emperors new clothes to me. Not to mention the effects on children's self esteem and mental health should they fail to live up to parental
expectations. I see the casualties in my work with their eating disorders, depression and anxiety

I have always sent my kids to the local school closest to where we happen to be living. The 2nd school had an RI Ofsted rating and all. Eldest didn't want to go to the hot house 6th form so I didn't make her. Still on course for 3 A*s and she'll go where she wants to study what she wants. She's happy and she loves learning and that is all that matters.

Enjoy your DC childhood. Chill out and save your money for books and experiences that back up what they are taught in school. Go to museums, art galleries, concerts, grow things in the garden, cook, visit historic places, talk about world events and what's in the news and you will automatically be giving your child so many advantages and enjoyment too.

Obviously she is not doing all 34 in one year, but across two years or more at least

Hats a very sane post, @ThePure — I went to Oxford from a dreadful school, and loved it, but, absolutely, would also have been happy elsewhere, and am certainly not that level of involved in DS’s education. He always gone to the geographically nearest school, regardless of its reputation, and will continue to. I’ve never found all that much difference in the teaching. We give him opportunities, expose him to stuff, but he’s his own person. I don’t have ‘aspirations’ for him as such.

@ThePure Contextual comes mostly in invitations to interviews, where candidates haven’t always quite reached the usual mark in the tests / GCSEs etc. The admissions tutors obviously know all about Hills Road etc. However, when it comes down to a decision between equally well qualified candidates from state and private, they generally plump for the candidates from Hills Road, Henrietta Barnett etc, as that enables them to tick the state box at the end of the day. There will be little difference in the privileges experienced by both groups.

Are you talking about Oxford or Cambridge? Because Cambridge interviews nearly all applicants, so what you say doesn’t make sense.

🙏🏼

@JumpinJellyfish Oxford.
@WoodsTreesWhere I expect it was you who posted a similar ‘smart’ response earlier . Many of us on this thread are Oxbridge educated and have, I hope , come out of the experience without a sense of inverted snobbery. I have a northern comprehensive background but do not presume to judge the achievements of young people from any background.

@Charlemagne38 I haven’t posted on this thread since that post. In 2023.

I don’t name change in a thread so that should help you see where I have and haven’t posted!

How do Cambridge uni deal with any Hills Road potential conflict of interest? Surely all the dons’ kids will be there and do they keep a really careful paper trail? So x does not interview the child of a revered colleague knowingly? How is this handled in reality?

Apologies, that was intended for @tutttutt

I doubt many bright Cambridge born and bred students want to go to uni here so it would not arise much. My DD would rather go to Oxford or LSE. No way does she want to go to uni in the town she's already spent her whole life in.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/undergraduate_admissions_by_apply_centre_2022_cycle.pdf

plenty of Hills Road, Perse, the Leys….

In fact, there are hardly any other schools in the country with more than 27 offers (Hills Road)! I think the Sixth Form College in Brighton did really well.

So one would only assume there have to be robust procedures in place to make sure there is no bias.

@Intergalacticcatharsis @ThePure I certainly hope so! They also got 51 Oxford offers. How fortunate their students are!

An interesting thread (I admit I have only read a small part) but all this arguing over state v private seems to be ignoring the herd of elephants in the room.

Universities are reducing their offers to ALL UK students and increasing offers to overseas students who pay double or treble the fee.

I’m not talking about the ones who never even turn up for the first day of lectures at their ex London poly, and disappear once they’ve got their UK entry visa, I’m talking about the rich, educated ones who then bugger off home once they have graduated. Our wealthiest and brightest return the favour and buy their education from the USA, but they like what they see and may not come back.

The slight increase in admissions for the poorer and brightest state school students is a tick box. Universities have to show they are widening their access but they need to marry this to also reducing the number of home fee places. So it’s the second tier private school children who get rejected. Last thing these colleges want to do it reject the children at the schools of their biggest donors. So stick with a highly selective big name and you should find no change.

Of course some state educated children are smart enough to get full scholarships to the USA too, so yet more brain drain.

The question shouldn’t be why are more or less state and private children getting into top universities but why are foreign students getting lower offers and buying our children’s education from under our noses.

Surely the universities need the money.

Except there is no decrease in home students - they're still the vast majority of undergrads.

Universities are reducing their offers to ALL UK students and increasing offers to overseas students who pay double or treble the fee.

They aren't? Numbers of both UK and non-UK students have risen (data from HESA):

In 2019/2020 there were 1,975,000 UK students enrolled in the first year of courses, compared to 557,000 non-UK students, and in 2021/2022 there were 2,183,000 UK students enrolled in the first year of courses, compared to 678,000 non-UK students

why are foreign students getting lower offers

I thought that only applied to foundation courses specifically designed for international students?

The number of students grows as the number of universities and courses grows. Undergraduate education has been a major growth area since then Blair era. Looking at over all places is misleading. In the top universities (which this thread is about) there is more competition than ever for the limited places.

That is the answer. The question is why is it being allowed to happen.

There is a big debate over private schools and VAT but nothing, for example, about overseas students taking up limited medical training places. This country loves to play class wars never is always too busy in fighting to see what is really going on. If people want more places at top universities for working class kids then lobby the government to limit the number of places that can be given to overseas students.