Do you need GCSE to do A level History?

[stickygotstuck]

I had a recent thread about DD's GCSE options. Several posters kindly contributed and the general view was that you could easily do History A level without having done the GCSE.

However, I have spoken to some people since who seem to think that if yhou don't take the GCSE that's that door is closed at at A level.

Which is it?

I'm asking now because, having chosen her options, now DD is not happy with them and is thinking of dropping History.

And what was that bit about swapping French and German maybe?
The situation seems a bit confused

I also did history A level ans I agree.

If she is sufficient uninterested that she's happy to drop it for GCSE, it won't be a good A level choice for her.

I did A level without GCSE, then went on to do a history degree.

That's the difficult bit, DD was extremely anxious to be told by school that these choices will have an impact on her future, says she's too young to choose (knowing her, this was one of the reasons we picked this school, where options are chosen a year later than the other local school). Hence the over analysing and changing her mind.

I think the school speaking to her would be best. I'll need to speak to the shool first.

*JussathoB , my previous thread was in part about the wisdom of doing two languages or one + History, and which one. I was letting a PP that contributed know that she's gone for German in the end (again, the less popular choice on that thread, there's a pattern there...). In fact, she's swapped French and History for German and Art. Her reserve option was French before. Now it's History.

Not sure about time table clashes. If there are any, then History would kick in as a reserve.

Op you also sound quite anxious about this?

Re the languages, I’m wondering how much teaching DD has already had in German and French? A lot of schools don’t do more than one language at key stage 3 apart from a kind of general introduction. Is it compulsory to do a language? Is your DD keen on studying a language?
I think I’m wondering whether she could drop the language and do the history but Ofc this depends how keen / strong she is in languages and on school policy

Also, you seem to be concerned about another school which makes option choices earlier. Tbh this most likely is a practical decision by the school based on their timetables teachers available etc and also it’s probably just easier for them to begin shepherding pupils in certain directions earlier. So I wouldn’t compare, your DD can study successfully with the arrangements they have at her school.

Here's hoping she'll hate it once she starts the course 🤦

do you mean that OP? 😐

Have you told her you will be insisting she does history?

the school will likely take her word over yours if she insists on another subject

Keeping a MFL seriously keeps doors open! There needs to be a decision made on the future. Music is often dropped because you can take music options outside gcse. Then she has art too. So are music and art A level contenders? Or is it German and History because she’s more academically inclined? This is the big choice isn’t it.

As for doing what subjects you like: great if you have a plan. If you don’t, keep it broad. Our school said an art, a humanity and a MFL of two.

I’m pro MFL but the reality is some students don’t do well on it. That’s why I was asking about how much of the languages she has studied and what her llikely achievement grade would be. Also A level language is an unusual choice nowadays (sadly) so if it’s future study you are thinking about I’m not sure GCSE mfl leads directly on to much in the future

I'm just a parent not an expert but I would be concerned about choosing both music and art unless one showed real talent and a possible future career. If she is super good at one, then I'd have no problem with both but as a pair, they are doing a lot of heavy lifting alongside RSE and German for A Level choices.
Keeping your options open is really important but even these are closing some doors. Music and Art can both be enjoyed outside of school. A language can be picked up later of course, but they are hard work, and learning in school provides a springboard for an later learning, so I would be inclined to keep that (although my DS is looking likely to fail his MFL choice despite doing ok in all other subjects).
Do you know her predicted GCSE grades? Does this have any bearing on her/your choices?

Doing Music, languages, maths and sciences at A level without GCSE would be very very difficult. I don't know about Art.
History would be doable but if she's not enjoying it/progressing ahead of GCSE then it would not be a wise choice.

She sounds very creative! Music and Art are definitely not easy options and if the school is worth anything that should have been discussed with her. It's also highly likely (unless it's a very creative-heavy school) that Music and Art will be in the same timetable slot so she might end up with the History! I'm sure it'll all work out in the end. If she loves those subjects, she should do them. A levels are not just based on options - there's English lit/ lang, Maths, further Maths, all the sciences etc.

DD is very good at and very keen on languages. She was going to do two but she's dropped one. She already speaks a third (bilingual) so she dropped one so she could do Music.

I'd not say she's particularly artistic but she is good at music (plays 2 instruments already) which is why I didn't think Music was a good choice. However, both DD and we this it will be good for her personal development.

She does need to keep it broad. She's not passionate about anything, is good at various things and has no idea what she wants to do eventually.

I was happy with her original choices. Art is a last minute wild card as far we were con concerned. However, DD says she always wanted to do it but she didn't think she was good enough. She's now been told (by peers and school) that you don't need to be good at drawing already and has become keen again.

The point is, she can't have been happy with her original choices or she wouldn't have changed them.

Despite this, she absolutely needs some feedback and I need to speak to the school. She left picking her choices too late and she rushed it. Several teachers will need to be spoken with to know where she stands.

A Music and Art timetable clash would be serendipitous! But I doubt it, as it must be a common combination for really artistic /creative kids.

Ah ok, sounds like the MFL must stay then. And the Music. So it’s between Art and History, with some discussion with school. Or choose two out of RPE, Art, History. I think I’ve finally got it!

Yes, we would definitely timetable the Art/Music combo.
To your original point, we would expect A Level applicants to have History GCSE but very occasionally we do get students without who request to take A Level. They need to explain to the Head of History why they didn't choose it at GCSE, why they are now interested, what are their future plans, what aspects of History excite them, etc. However bright they are, and however good their essay skills are, they are always behind in terms of source analysis skills. Such students should begin with History + 3 other A Levels as an insurance.

Yes, that's it.

RPE is not negotiable (loves that one) so literally between Art and History.

She really fancies doing Art but it's unlikely she'll want to do the A level. Which is why she needed to know if picking History later was feasible. Which, sensible or not, seems to be.

With art, is it possible for her to do an art class out of school rather than the GCSE?

2 x MFL always keeps doors open. Look at advice from Cambridge university on subject selection. Universities always like MFL students because so few want it now. If it’s a strength, keep 2. Art is the out of place one. If art is unlikely at university, keep music but drop art. History is way better with MFL for an academic Dc. Art is great for artists and those not doing another “art” such as drama or music etc. It’s really a no brainer to drop it instead of gambling with history.

I’d think if you were that keen on history you’d do it for GCSE. And the skills learnt through GCSE such as using source materials and the content (world wars are in both) would stand you in good stead.

This DD needs guidance and teachers should do it. The old method of core subjects plus an art, humanity, tech subject or additional MFL still works best.

Personally I would think that, given your DD’s wide range of interests, one MFL GCSE is enough, especially since I think you said she speaks another language at home as well as English

I was a jack of all trades master of none. I wanted to do single sciences, maths, English lit, geography, history and art by time I got to a level. I had no fucking idea what I wanted to do. I chose my uni degree by picking where I wanted to go first, then looking through every course and deciding what I DIDN'T want to do. It was totally backwards and utterly ridiculous. Your daughter doesn't sound a million miles off my mentality.

I did art and history at a-level. I did media and history at degree with some art history mixed in to boot. Then ended up working at a printers doing graphic design.

This is my take on it.

I'd say 100% do the history. At GCSE level art involves more work than history. And it's not the end of the world to lose.

I was good at art, but there were times it felt like an absolute chore - and I loved it. If anything it made me dislike it at times. You have to be really committed to the art imho. At a level I loved it but not enough and certainly it wasn't my passion. And there's zillions of ways to pick it up later without having done it previously. Having worked in a printers, having it on your CV really wasn't terribly helpful - the kids who came in for jobs had no concept of deadlines. It was all pretty pictures and often not much else ticking upstairs. And all employers were really interested in was a good portfolio and evidence you had the correct skills for the job which you can show without a qualification for art. Given that all my graphic design stuff was self taught and not from formal education it kind of makes something of a joke of it. Actually having a degree in something more academic was more useful in demonstrating my worth. It said I could do more than pretty pictures and had some intelligence too.

Careers in art either go down the REALLY creative path (in which case her talent and passion would be driving her in a single minded way now) as it's competitive and difficult to make a mark in OR you go more down the marketing type route of understanding visuals, meaning, significance and message. In which case history / politics / media actually gives you a lot more of those type of skills in terms of being to analyze content - and do the reverse of create content. History is a solid entry to all three.

She not an artist in the making by the sound of it as the passion she needs for it just isn't there. Maybe a creative career but not artist. Or if there is a massive shift there are pathways to that (foundation course being the most obvious). So if she's about keeping things open history is probably a better choice even if she's likes the art on the side.

Maybe others will have a different take but that's where I'd be looking at guiding her