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Secondary education

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Original poster

Single-sex education for boys - How much does it matter?

74 replies

1sttodie · 19/02/2023 12:16

Inspired by a recent, thought-provoking, thread about single sex vs co-ed education for girls. I grew up in a country where all state education is co-ed, so have limited understanding about single-sex education. But here am I, with a Year 6 son who will likely find out on March 1st that he will be going to an all-boys secondary school. He's applied for our 3 local grammars (all single sex), and in terms of comps, his top choice is also single-sex and we are well in the catchment for it. His reasons for preferring these schools have nothing to do with them being single-sex: it's a complete non-factor for him at this stage.

To those of you who have experience with boys at single-sex secondary schools, please could you share how it's impacted how they view and interact with women? Surely, these days, schools take measures to help prevent hypermasculine or misogynistic behaviours? I appreciate that parenting also has a huge role to play here, so tips welcome!

Unfortunately, my son does not have a sister and there aren't any girls around his age in our social circle. I was thinking of enrolling him for some kind of 'mixed' activity outside of school but it would be challenging as he already has a busy extra-curricular schedule (unfortunately all with boys only). Oh, dear!

Thank you

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tryandcountsheep · 19/02/2023 13:16

Very out of date and anecdotal nfo but my brother vowed never to send his son to all boys school- the warped view of women, the bullying, the fights, but this was all 20 years ago. He does say single sex is good for geeky looking, shy boys, no pressure of being popular with girls, etc.

The accepted view seems to be boys are better off at co-ed, whereas girls are better of at single sex. I guess this view relates to what my brother says about his experience, the rugger bugger atmosphere these schools breed and the lack of social interaction with girls being a fertile ground for misogynic thinking. But of course schools can counter this and you should ask what they do - I know an all boys school that does drama and other activities with a sister school.

The single sex boys system is centuries old and so based on tradition, single sex boys school remain BUT its interesting that some of the best academic boys schools are ones which have co-ed 6 th form. ( Like exclusive public schools like Westminster ) Some grammars share with sister schools to provide 6th forms also.

Check if your school mixes at 6th form.

TheaBrandt · 19/02/2023 13:20

My social butterfly 14 year old Dd has friends from lots of the local schools state and private - except from the only boys school. They are “misogynistic and homophobic” according to her. Utterly anecdotal sorry!

IncessantNameChanger · 19/02/2023 13:27

My son goes to all boys school. It's a sen school so normally it wouldn't be my choice but it's best shot at doing well academically. Truthfully? The behaviours are more extreme and more shocking. They do seem to be misogynistic generally as there is no peer group to show them that girls are clever and successful. Lots of violence that would be instant expulsion or suspension in mainstream is tolerated too but again, it's a sen school. It's never going to be full of little darlings

clarrylove · 19/02/2023 13:33

My 2 go to an all boys school. I think they are very respectful towards females and seem to really respect their female teachers and peers.They do play mixed sex sports though and also other hobbies where they mix with the opposite sex. We do have a co-ed sixth form and I am pleased about that but no issues otherwise.

Bambala · 19/02/2023 13:47

Our local boys grammar has a lot of low level bullying and physical aggression but parents say the school are quick to try and stamp it out but I think it can be difficult to manage an all boys culture.

BendingSpoons · 19/02/2023 14:21

My brother went to 1 of the grammar schools I suspect you are referring to. There was a fair amount of socialising with the girls from the local private school and 1 of the girls' grammars. Often friendships seemed to be formed between students getting the same buses/trains. I went to the girls' grammar and socialised via a youth club. There are lots of single sex schools in the area so he won't be unusual.

sellebraytion · 19/02/2023 16:15

Surely, these days, schools take measures to help prevent hypermasculine or misogynistic behaviours?

Yes, they do, but they won't be there to police the boys' behaviour in every conversation or social interaction, and it will all be a bit theoretical if they're not interacting with girls regularly and being called out for transgressions. At mixed schools, boys that make mistakes can learn their lesson in a relatively 'safe' understanding environment. By the time they leave school and go to uni/college/work they're expected to have learned those lessons.

For what it's worth, girls' schools can be pretty damaging too.

TooBigForMyBoots · 19/02/2023 16:22

My DS goes to a SS grammar and they are shit hot at cracking down on AT type misogyny. I think it helps that so many of the teachers are male and no whining from the boys that girls are getting "special treatment".

Donelurking · 19/02/2023 16:25

A very personal experience and not necessarily a universal truth but, for what it’s worth, I was scarred for life from the experience. As a previous poster says it doesn’t help you develop healthy and respectful views of one’s self and of others (in particular, women).

Original poster
1sttodie · 19/02/2023 17:56

Thanks, everyone! I'll be honest: some of the answers made my jaw drop a little but I needed to hear it!

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Original poster
1sttodie · 19/02/2023 18:00

@tryandcountsheepGood point about mixed 6th form. 2 of the top 4 schools on my son's CAF have this, so there's a chance he will benefit from a mixed environment before uni.

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Original poster
1sttodie · 19/02/2023 18:02

@TheaBrandt @Bambala @IncessantNameChanger That sounds awful. The boys' schools in my area all seem strong on promoting kindness, anti-bullying, LGBT acceptance and gender equality. I can only hope their attempts are mostly successful...

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Original poster
1sttodie · 19/02/2023 18:03

@sellebraytion @Donelurking I see where you're coming from. And how the lack of interactions with girls can make it difficult to combat misogyny.My high school was co-ed and there's no doubt that sharing a learning environment with boys, and the friendships I forged with them, have greatly enriched my life. While my best friends were girls, the boys provided a wonderful balance. (And they made me laugh!) It's difficult for me to grasp the impact that single-sex education will have on my son. It sounds like I'll need to be proactive about the 'risks'.

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Original poster
1sttodie · 19/02/2023 18:05

@clarrylove That's reassuring! I take your point about interacting with girls outside of school. It's just unfortunate that my son only does 'boys' sports'. I'll find something to offset that - maybe holiday camps that includes girls.

@BendingSpoons That's great to hear! The 4 schools in question are all within walking distance of our home, but I'm now thinking I may ask my son to take the bus instead haha! Assuming you are also referring to Sutton, then yes there are a lot of single-sex schools around (faith, grammars, comps, indies) and surely, most of the people who go there do not end up social misfits.

@TooBigForMyBoots For sure, mixed schools also need to promote gender equality.

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sazzy5 · 19/02/2023 18:08

My two DS go to an all boys school, they mix with a couple of the girls schools for classes in 6th form. I have never heard or seen anything to concern me about behaviour or attitude. They seem to have a lot of female speakers come in to talk about various topics, that would help them understand the female point of view and lots about consent.
DS1 is now at university and has a mix of friends-so don’t think they struggle to mix later on.
The main thing I noticed is the girls seem much more mature than the boys.

AmyandPhilipfan · 19/02/2023 18:11

My two go to an all boys' (state) school. I chose it because the discipline seemed better and because a lot of kids from their primary (in a fairly deprived area) go up to the more local comp with behaviour issues and I didn't want my two to be associated with them. Overall the behaviour at their school is very good and there is a good mix of male and female teachers who seem to be equally respected by the students. My two also go to a weekly youth club that's mixed and have had no issues getting along with the girls there.

BendingSpoons · 19/02/2023 18:12

Yes the Sutton schools. My brother didn't actually get the bus himself but made friends through his friends! But I think the bus is free to under 16's, so he can always take it a stop or two!

Theoldwrinkley · 19/02/2023 18:19

Both my boys went to an all boys grammar. I went (decades ago) to the all girls grammar. On both occasions there was great emphasis on the joint enterprises they do (neighbouring sites) but it was a load of tosh when I went (1970's) and is still a load of tosh now. My sons both excelled at STEM subjects, did engineering at uni, hobbies mainly 'male' (astronomy) so never ended up talking to girls at all. They are an alien species. Younger son now 31, own house, own car, good job. But very little female input into his life. Very sad.
I think single sex education good to age 16, then co-ed best.

Original poster
1sttodie · 19/02/2023 22:21

@sazzy5 @AmyandPhilipfan Music to my ears - thank you!

@Theoldwrinkley In this case, it does sound like your son would have benefited from socialising with the opposite sex at school. Thanks for sharing.

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Original poster
1sttodie · 19/02/2023 22:27

BendingSpoons · 19/02/2023 18:12

Yes the Sutton schools. My brother didn't actually get the bus himself but made friends through his friends! But I think the bus is free to under 16's, so he can always take it a stop or two!

😉

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Mumski45 · 19/02/2023 22:44

My 2 DS go to an all boys grammar. They have values lessons every week which cover discussions on misogyny, racism, sex education etc.

The sixth form is mixed and there is sister grammar school which they partner with for music and drama productions.

The buses run for both schools although they do tend to split themselves as the schools are in slightly different locations.

They both appear to be very clued up on current issues and respectful of women, LGBT and other minorities. They are of mixed heritage and there is a very diverse mix of boys in the school.

Whilst some of their education is down to the school's approach I think attitudes within your family will be important so as long as you give a good example I don't think a single sex school is automatically an issue.

user1497207191 · 19/02/2023 23:25

Our son went to a boys school. He thoroughly enjoyed it, no bullying, did well and no problems with his view of women, despite him not having a sister either. He’s now in a uni flat with 5 girls, 4 of whom were in his first uni flat in year 1 - they asked him to join them for years 2 and 3 in private accommodation, so they obviously don’t think he’s strange or unsuitable to share. Single sex has done him no harm at all!

PettsWoodParadise · 20/02/2023 05:34

The grammars in our area there is a lot of movement at sixth form so if your DS wants to move later then do bear that in mind.

DD’s single sex to Y11 grammar school had a transfer week in the summer before she started sixth form for those coming into school and those already at the school. Two boys were told their offers were withdrawn based on how they treated others at the week including misogyny and homophobia. However all the other boys have generally been lovely and considerate.

Remaker · 20/02/2023 06:00

Not in the UK but my kids go to the equivalent of grammar school - single sex and academically selective.

I have been shocked by how amazing the experience has been for my daughter. Just light years better than the coed education that I had. I would say a huge part of her academic success is down to it being a single sex school.

For my son I would say there is a significant difference in attending a multicultural, state, academically challenging all boys school compared to an elite, private all boys school. The cohort of boys is on the whole sensible, hard working and don’t have the entitlement that I see in my friends’ sons who attend private schools.

I do see a benefit in the teaching style, particularly in the humanities, where the texts and teaching style is more tailored to boys. My son started high school not believing he was very good at English, history etc but it turns out he actually is. I think being taught separately from girls, who tend to be more eloquent and mature at an earlier age, has really benefited him. Similarly my daughter has absolutely flourished in maths and chemistry in the all girls environment.

I went to a coed school and many of the boys were absolute arseholes. The benefit of a single sex environment is there are no girls to be their victims.

illiterato · 20/02/2023 06:39

My personal view is that single sex is better for girls and Co- ed better for boys ( have chosen this for own dc) but obviously the numbers don’t work on that approach at any scale. There’s one ( private, through) school I’ve heard of that has a Co-ed primary and sixth form but split for lessons years 7-11, which sounds interesting.