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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

SPGS actual offers and acceptances

220 replies

spnumbers · 22/01/2023 09:09

This has been mentioned a few times. Here's last year's actual results by school. The class was 113. 51 places were achieved by making 53 offers. That's 45% of the class. At that rate, it implies that a total of 4.4 offers were declined. If we think the other 55% is more likely to decline offers, then it's more like 7-12 total offers declined. Enjoy.

SPGS actual offers and acceptances
OP posts:
Lolakath19 · 25/01/2023 14:55

a bit more than 200, 220/230

Pleasegrowmore · 25/01/2023 15:00

Thanks @Lolakath19.

As an SPGS alumnae myself, I cannot tell you how much the school, the intake and the whole entrance procedure has changed in - well, quite a lot of years ... :)

11plus2023 · 25/01/2023 15:04

@Pleasegrowmore , please pardon my question if it is too intrusive, but would you send or have you sent your DD there? I am always curious as to how many alumnae send their DDs there, now that they have the benefit of seeing in hindsight the impact of the school.. there are a lot of schools of thought on how impactful these schools are vs. taking in extremely bright kids

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 15:18

Agree with @Lolakath19 SPGS is not the "Holy Grail", at least not for me and my DD.

For us DD's own guided preference is most important. She is turning 11 soon, during the 11+ prep process she has grown her confidence and independence day by day. She knows how to do her own research on different schools - subjects, extra curriculums, clubs, etos, commutes, school logo and uniforms! Analytically experience the school during the exam and interview process.

At the level of London top selective will have very little difference in terms of academic performance anyway, suitability and personal preference will make a more happy kid, which worth way more than telling other parents your DD was once in SPGS in many years later..

11plus2023 · 25/01/2023 15:30

Agree @Lolakath19 and @PreplexJ its so easy to be taken in by the hype and hoola around this

Pleasegrowmore · 25/01/2023 15:35

@11plus2023 More than happy to answer that! It's interesting because I would never dream of sending her to the school IF it was like when I went there. Now, I was fine, and escaped relatively unscathed but I think the pastoral care was non existent and a lot of girls in my year were not in a happy place at all, and I think a lot of my former schoolfriends would be astonished to learn i'm even thinking of it for DD.

But from what I've seen from open days, and speaking to others, I think that has changed completely. Pastoral care now clearly a priority - as it should be.
And everything that I loved about it - the breadth of education, not just the depth.. the intellectual curiosity - that's clearly still there.

On the other hand, it's also a very very different demographic from when I went there. That does rather reflect private schools in London across the board though, and it's just how it is. The analogy I usually make is that school fees have done the same thing as London house prices and shot up infinitely faster and greater than most people's income. the reality is unless we get a huge bursary and grandparent help, we can't afford the fees anyway so it's a slightly academic question really. My concern would be that she would feel very different to the girls going on multiple holidays a year, huge houses, etc.

Lolakath19 · 25/01/2023 16:10

it is really interesting I have heard lots of old Paulinas saying the same thing and not wanting to send their daughters there but as you say there is one generation in between and things have changed - hopefully for the best. Hopefully one day there will be some school rankings about well being and mental health !

spnumbers · 25/01/2023 19:04

wow, this thread has gone so off piste.

OP posts:
spnumbers · 25/01/2023 19:17

Well, since we're off piste, let's have some fun.

Here's a question for everyone. Why bother even applying to SPGS? As noted, the results are quite similar to other good schools. However, your DD has to do not one, but two separate days of testing plus another day of interviewing. Why bother? Why not avoid the hype and hoopla, the be all, and just skip it and be happy?

OP posts:
DilettanteMum · 25/01/2023 19:29

Lolakath19 · 25/01/2023 13:28

I have heard quite a few girls are leaving regularly (to go abroad/relocating, not good fit etc), with Brexit and so on, having 3 girls extra is not much.. @ 11plus2023 good luck to your DD but keep in mind that 11+ is not an end per se. If your DD do not make it to SPGS her life is not ruined and similarly if your DD ends up their, it does not mean that she is sorted lol. It is just a school.. Your daughter will achieve as well at SPGS than at FH or WHS or elsewhere. SPGS has brilliant / spectacular results because they have the top 110 performing girls on one day. Like Bute has 30% offers at SPGS because they take the 20 most performing girls of all prep around at 7+, it is not because the teaching is better than at another schools. Some might even say that some other schools have better value in that field, making sure that more academically average girls reached a higher target.

Actually there are multiple girls from reception ballot at Bute in the current intake at SPGS in Year 7. And no they are not all siblings.

Contrary to popular belief, the reception class at Bute is not the low end. Is this down to Bute teaching and philosophy. You decide.

LondonMum20222 · 25/01/2023 19:45

spnumbers · 25/01/2023 19:17

Well, since we're off piste, let's have some fun.

Here's a question for everyone. Why bother even applying to SPGS? As noted, the results are quite similar to other good schools. However, your DD has to do not one, but two separate days of testing plus another day of interviewing. Why bother? Why not avoid the hype and hoopla, the be all, and just skip it and be happy?

Hahaha. This is my favourite post on here for days. The annual pre-offers parental disingenuity of "Yeah, we it put my DD in for SPGS but we may not take it if we get an offer" is just too too funny (and predictable). They'll be sending the deposit by return of post. 😂

BonjourCrisette · 25/01/2023 20:13

Hello, I'm also a former Paulina and I did send my daughter there. I think the school has changed a lot in terms of how supportive it is now - my daughter describes it as 'kind' which is a description I don't think many Paulinas from my vintage would recognise much, though in some ways it's the same ethos in the sense that it's a light touch school. Rules are few, the emphasis is on personal responsibility rather than conforming to some outside framework of rules and teachers are prepared to cut students quite a lot of slack on homework and deadlines where they feel it appropriate.

Even though mental health support was pretty much nonexistent when I was there (I don't think that's different for any of the London independent day schools - they were all awful back then) I found it a place where you could argue your corner and be listened to in a way that I think is quite unusual in secondary schools. And I was a dreadfully badly behaved teenager and honestly some of the stuff I got up to would have resulted in expulsion anywhere else I think (I didn't get expelled and went on to a very good university and my teachers were incredibly kind to me even when I wasn't to them). It is MUCH better now, in fact I would say really good.

We are not super-rich and my daughter hasn't suffered from feeling different. The narrative around bursaries is very positive, and aimed at welcoming and celebrating the diversity bursary students bring to the school. There is a huge emphasis on raising bursary funds across the school. DD has plenty of friends who are just ordinary kids with normal parents. We have found very few of the super-rich among our friends and acquaintances at school. I do hear stuff about other girls on occasion, but I don't think it was hugely different when I was there. I don't think I personally noticed the disparity in wealth until some time after I joined, tbh. I was just an ordinary middle class child, because as @Pleasegrowmore says in those days normal people could afford the fees.

I would heartily recommend anyone thinking of whether they would be eligible for a bursary to just ask in advance of applying. The school has bursary funds to spare - not enough people are applying for bursaries and they want more!

I know there is another former Paulina who has also sent her daughter there on MN, and I have had some interesting conversations with her on the subject of how it has changed and how it hasn't changed.

So there you go, not all former Paulinas want to avoid St Paul's at all costs.

Re 'why would you even apply when you can go elsewhere and get the same results', I didn't send my daughter there for the results as I'm quite sure she would have done really well at the local (pretty decent) comprehensive. And she also got into Tiffin which is obviously free. I sent her to SPGS because I liked the culture and the curriculum and because having experienced SATs I did not want her to spend her school days as a data point. There was other stuff too (specific to her) which made me think she would like it better there than anywhere else. And she loves it.

spnumbers · 25/01/2023 20:25

BonjourCrisette · 25/01/2023 20:13

Hello, I'm also a former Paulina and I did send my daughter there. I think the school has changed a lot in terms of how supportive it is now - my daughter describes it as 'kind' which is a description I don't think many Paulinas from my vintage would recognise much, though in some ways it's the same ethos in the sense that it's a light touch school. Rules are few, the emphasis is on personal responsibility rather than conforming to some outside framework of rules and teachers are prepared to cut students quite a lot of slack on homework and deadlines where they feel it appropriate.

Even though mental health support was pretty much nonexistent when I was there (I don't think that's different for any of the London independent day schools - they were all awful back then) I found it a place where you could argue your corner and be listened to in a way that I think is quite unusual in secondary schools. And I was a dreadfully badly behaved teenager and honestly some of the stuff I got up to would have resulted in expulsion anywhere else I think (I didn't get expelled and went on to a very good university and my teachers were incredibly kind to me even when I wasn't to them). It is MUCH better now, in fact I would say really good.

We are not super-rich and my daughter hasn't suffered from feeling different. The narrative around bursaries is very positive, and aimed at welcoming and celebrating the diversity bursary students bring to the school. There is a huge emphasis on raising bursary funds across the school. DD has plenty of friends who are just ordinary kids with normal parents. We have found very few of the super-rich among our friends and acquaintances at school. I do hear stuff about other girls on occasion, but I don't think it was hugely different when I was there. I don't think I personally noticed the disparity in wealth until some time after I joined, tbh. I was just an ordinary middle class child, because as @Pleasegrowmore says in those days normal people could afford the fees.

I would heartily recommend anyone thinking of whether they would be eligible for a bursary to just ask in advance of applying. The school has bursary funds to spare - not enough people are applying for bursaries and they want more!

I know there is another former Paulina who has also sent her daughter there on MN, and I have had some interesting conversations with her on the subject of how it has changed and how it hasn't changed.

So there you go, not all former Paulinas want to avoid St Paul's at all costs.

Re 'why would you even apply when you can go elsewhere and get the same results', I didn't send my daughter there for the results as I'm quite sure she would have done really well at the local (pretty decent) comprehensive. And she also got into Tiffin which is obviously free. I sent her to SPGS because I liked the culture and the curriculum and because having experienced SATs I did not want her to spend her school days as a data point. There was other stuff too (specific to her) which made me think she would like it better there than anywhere else. And she loves it.

Thank you for sharing that lovely experience and detail.

The "why bother even applying?" is actually meant for those who did not personally attend SPGS and do not have DDs at the school.

Again, thank you.

OP posts:
BonjourCrisette · 25/01/2023 20:33

My pleasure. If there is anyone who would like to ask a specific question and doesn't want it on the thread, I'm more than happy to reply to DMs.

Lolakath19 · 25/01/2023 20:58

@spnumbers I am not sure if that is directed to me and not sure why you are getting aggressive about it. Don t get me wrong I think SPGS is a fantastic school. My DS is at the boys school so I won t be the one saying dont put your kids there.. I just want to point that putting you kids at SPGS or St Paul, or westminster or KCS is not an end per se and does not guarantee anything in terms of their future. Having first hand experience I think it can be quite tough for the kids as you go from being at the top of your class to being one amongst other for the vast majority or even to the bottom of class for others and in terms of self esteem it can be quite tough.
Anyway, my first comments were just around the number of people at prep being offered from waiting list, 1 at KPS, 3 at Bute, 1/2 at FH which means, they do offer on waiting list and some people chose to send their DD elsewhere whether it is because they don t have the means and they have a grammar place somewhere else or they prefer a co ed school or they did not like the head or whatever.

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:00

"The "why bother even applying?" is actually meant for those who did not personally attend SPGS and do not have DDs at the school."

Because we know it is the competition level is high and will take hours of prep per week to get through any top schools like SPGS in London. Any sensible parents know basic statistics will hedge the bets and apply more than one schools (even it is not your top choice)

You also get the chance to know the school better via the process.

LondonMum20222 · 25/01/2023 21:10

@PreplexJ The "Why bother applying" was directed to the people on here implying they might not accept an SPGS offer if it's made. For parents who've spent two hours a day for many months drilling their kids for the 11+ it's genuinely hilarious that they think anyone might believe they won't be biting off the admissions staff hand if their DD actually manages to get an offer to SPGS. 😂

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:16

Does matter getting offer or not, process is done. It is more than 50% chance versus someone has 0% chance of doing 1 hour per week.

Good luck for 2024 mums that prep hard (more than 8 hours per week I would say) in mumsnet 🙄

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:50

Here comes another mumsnet Myth, "for 11+ you only need to apply for your top choice school and you would get in, why bother apply other schools"

LondonMum20222 · 25/01/2023 21:51

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:16

Does matter getting offer or not, process is done. It is more than 50% chance versus someone has 0% chance of doing 1 hour per week.

Good luck for 2024 mums that prep hard (more than 8 hours per week I would say) in mumsnet 🙄

Loving your stats. 😂 (You know stats are numbers based on empirical evidence, not just random figures plucked out of the air to validate some half-baked self-justification? Hopefully in all those hours of tutoring you managed to teach your DD some proper statistics).🤞

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:54

Good luck with some mums statistics skillsets, they won't pass pretest 😆

LondonMum20222 · 25/01/2023 21:55

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:50

Here comes another mumsnet Myth, "for 11+ you only need to apply for your top choice school and you would get in, why bother apply other schools"

Are you really not clever enough to understand that that's not what the OP was saying?! Or are you just being deliberately obtuse? They were saying that most people who apply to SPGS will accept the offer (hence the table that started this thread) and that the parents who are now professing that they might not, if offered, take it, are talking disingenuous nonsense. I'd have thought that you, who are so keen on referencing "MN myths" would understand that. Clearly not. 🤦‍♀️

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:58

Well, we know some mums are prepping hard but tell mumsnet only 1-2 hours per week is all you need to get to top school like SPGS for 2024

deliberately obtuse? disingenuous nonsense!?

LondonMum20222 · 25/01/2023 22:31

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 21:58

Well, we know some mums are prepping hard but tell mumsnet only 1-2 hours per week is all you need to get to top school like SPGS for 2024

deliberately obtuse? disingenuous nonsense!?

@PreplexJ If you're genuinely happy with the choices you made, just live with them. You don't need to keep attacking other people who are choosing to do things differently. It makes you come across as deeply toxic, deeply insecure or deeply uncertain about the choices you've made, or perhaps a combination of all three. You've been making snide remarks to anyone who dared disagree with you about 11+ prep for days now. It's starting to come across as a bit deranged. I honestly hope - for your poor DD's sake - that she gets the offers you want for her, and lives up to your expectations. But I'm the meantime, there's really no need to spread so much bile on here.

PreplexJ · 25/01/2023 22:39

Some have the choose they made, some choose to mislead other's choice. YES, I am hysterical on this.

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