SW London Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023 (Part III)

[QuiteAJourney]

Continuation from

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4697901-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-ii?page=40&reply=122947087

An opportunity for parents of DC applying to private and grammar schools in SW London for entry in year 7 in 2023 to share their journeys.

Reading all these (rather concerning) posts about prep and parental role in that process, and bringing it back to the previous discussion of factors that people might want to consider when choosing a school, I would add not only your DD's fit with the school culture and cohort, but also (imho) your own fit with the parental cohort.

Why can't SPGS girls be "normal" and have fun? There may be some girls like the ones @mantrama mentions, but this can happen at any other selective school, like NLCS, HBS or CLSG. I am sure the majority of girls at SPGS can actually have fun and be good at what they do, and are accepted on their own merit.

Absolutely! I’m sure these demented mums exist at all schools where entry is highly sought after.

@FriendlyMom I'm sure most of them are happy and fun, but I'm also sure few parents on these school tell you in MN their DD's are working too hard and not having enough fun if they really is...

Hi. Is there anyone here that applied for Whitgift and Trinty 11+, who also applied for fee assistance?

@QuiteAJourney "your own fit with the parental cohort" for the next 7 years

Concur, this would be my key consideration.

@Elite89 we applied to Whitgift 11 plus

We've been invited to interview but haven't heard anything regarding fee assistance. Do you know at which point they request documents etc

@Londonintherain My neighbor’s daughter must have been in the same room as your’s at G&L last year. Same story - a teacher came out and told the waiting parents there were some toilet emergencies. She watched the vast majority of kids go home before her DD came out, exhausted, starving and annoyed. Her DD had to sit silently at the desk for like 40 minutes before she could start the last section. My neighbor found out scores when she also complained - 3 sections the scores were what they were looking for, 4th section was the one with the long wait at the end, and she got way less. G&L said they registered the complaint and that was it. She said the emails made her feel like her kid was disposable. Never mind, 700 others just like her. But these aren’t hundreds of nobodies, they’re little kids.

I saw how upsetting it was for them - they felt terrible putting their daughter through all that and then was met with that situation and reaction. I’m sorry your daughter experienced it too. Their daughter didn’t get an interview at G&L but got offers from SPGS, CLGS and LU. There is so little fair about this process and while it generally works out in the end, there are better ways schools could treat our kids. (And big eye roll for the Kit Kat! Every school seems to hand them out!) And ‘generally works out in the end’ ignores the tears, exhaustion and disappointments that so many experience along the way.

@Elite89 You should be contacted by the John Whitgift Foundation in the first instance by phone and then by email. Have you noticed any missed calls?

@QuiteAJourney how would you know if you fit in w the parental cohort? Also, why would that matter that much if your dd is the one going to the school? Do the parents hang out? I understand in primary parents tend to hang out (at least at my dc primary) but it is bc we are all local. I am def not one of those tiger parents types that a pp mentions.

My dd is not applying to SPGS, but G&L, which many have told me is super academic etc. My dd wants to go there, but now I am getting concerned, what if it is too academic. My dd is one of those lucky dc that just absorbs information quickly and she just coasts through school now (state primary). She enjoys learning, but in her current school she does not have to put much effort. She studied a bit for the 11+, but again compared to what I am reading about what others have done, she has a more relaxed approach. How do we know if a school is too academic? When I hear of dc being tutored like crazy, spending hours studying etc I get turned off. This is so not my type and my dd is not like this as well. My sister has a daughter at a feeder school to SPGS, G&L and LU. She told me similar stories of parents tutoring from year 4, studying two hours a day during their holidays etc. And all the extra works dc are doing outside of the school. Her dc are not given hw at the school, but she gives them an hour of work a day that she does with them herself.......(when my dc were that age we were just spending 2-3 hours in the park daily and not doing much hw!). And form what I understand 11+ prep starts from year 2 there or maybe even earlier with some of the parents!!!!!!

This is something I would like to do. Do you think all schools will give you feedback on exam performance?

@Daydreamscometrue Thank you. Haven't received any missed calls. So guessing DS most likely hasn't been shortlisted, but still in the run for a full fees place.

@SamPoodle123 seems like you won't fit into tiger parents cohort which is mainstream of some schools. And tiger parents are too busy to hang out😝

I do not know if all schools will do it and if they do, to what extent. However, there's no downside in asking.

Upper school is different, parents tend to interact less with other parents. You certainly can be out there everyday making friends, volunteering...and that's great. My own experience is I went from regularly volunteering at school, standing outside school gate everyday to at upper school just dropping off several hundred yards from school and drive off. I think I know two parents that we live close to. I'd focus on your DC fitting in and not worry about other parents.

I love this thread. At its best its full of incredible help, advice and support.

But reading it, as a parent, I would be very wary of taking anecdotes as evidence.

"My friend's neighbour's cousin's sister's daughter (I exaggerate, but only slightly) told me all these terrible things about X school" isn't evidence, it's hearsay.

"I heard that all the children at X school are stressed / unhappy / have mental health disorders / can't keep up with the work / are doing drugs / are having underage sex / are under immense pressure" (delete as appropriate) isn't evidence, it's rumour.

"I've heard that X% of kids at X school did 50 hours a week of private tutoring to get in / stay tutored throughout senior school" isn't data, it's speculation (often entirely unsubstantiated, often fuelled by parental anxiety).

Are there parents at every London selective school who have tutored their child to the hilt to earn them a place? Of course there are. Will that child be okay there and keep up? Who knows, except that family and that school.

Does any school run the admissions process perfectly? Of course not, because the 11+ is far from perfect. I suspect one thing most parents on this thread would agree with is that the 11+ fails to put the wellbeing of the child front and centre.

Are there some children at every selective school across the country who feel under pressure and that they can't keep up? Almost certainly - these are high-achieving institutions and someone is always going to be at the bottom of the cohort (hence great advice on here from @bjmin to find out - post offers, if admissions will tell you - where your child was in that year's group of applicants).

Have you massively over-tutored your child and now, if offered a place at a competitive school, are they going to struggle to keep up? Only you know that - only you know how hard you've pushed them and what level / culture of work they'd be comfortable with.

My advice would be to think back to when you visited all these schools. I don't know about everyone else, but DD and I got a pretty immediate, instinctive sense on open days of where she'd be happy and thrive. Some schools just felt "wrong" for a whole variety of reasons, and some felt very right.

At the end of the day, you know your DC best. This is the next seven years of their life, and will help define the adult they become. Hopefully, in a few weeks' time, you'll all have multiple offers to consider. My advice would be, don't be swayed by league tables (for most of the schools we're discussing, there's really very little between them in terms of results, and as discussed on here at length, research says most children get the same results wherever they go), or what other people might do in your situation. It doesn't matter whether others would kill for a spot at a particular school if you don't think it's the best fit for your child. And try to be honest with yourself about the kind of person your DD is - including their academic interests / capacity / motivation / style of learning - to pick the right fit for them, not the "best" school on your offers list.

On the very first iteration of this thread I mentioned something that we've said to DD a lot when visiting schools: "There's no best school, only the best school for you." I really hope you all find those for your DC over the next month or so.

Completely agree that parents do not spend much time together in upper / secondary school (the infamous school gate interactions are now gone so it is more about events etc). My comment referred to the de fact that parents, most notably through the way in which the influence the values, behaviours of their DC and the way in which they involve themselves in their DCs education are an important part of the equation.

I wholeheartedly agree.
It is brilliant to share the our experiences and tips and to give support to each other ...but ultimately each one of us has a different set of values and circumstances and, most importantly, a different DC. By all means, get as much information as possible (filtering according to the level or reliability / hear-say) but trust yourself and your instincts.

In openday, school will downplay the area of which are perceived as negative.. So feeling on the visit day may not be enough. Try to talk to the pupils at school as much as you can.

Is it aecdotes, heresay or rumours? Do your own duo diligence to find out.

Lol, well I would not want to hang out with those tiger parents anyway ;) I have my own friends in the area I live in, so not really looking for a set of new friends (unless I happen to meet some by chance)...but anyway, its more of my dd fitting in and finding good friends. That is very important to me and her. She likes to have good friendships and enjoy being a kid.

Totally agree with your post @LondonMum20222 about not taking hearsay as evidence from this thread.

@Elite89 when did you get your invitation to interview? They emailed us on Friday but called yesterday so might be a backlog. You could always email the Foundation for clarity.

I do think the parents matters as their values and approach to parenting will influence the culture of the school. It’s not about being mates with the other mums but about the values and ethos it creates in the school community.

Personally, the parents are one of the biggest filters for me when thinking about a school.

I completely agree, one whole element of the Pastoral aspect (if that is important to you) is having a lovely parent network. The tiger mums prob wouldn't join in anyway, expect the school is doing the whole job for them.