SW London Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023 (Part III)

[QuiteAJourney]

Continuation from

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4697901-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-ii?page=40&reply=122947087

An opportunity for parents of DC applying to private and grammar schools in SW London for entry in year 7 in 2023 to share their journeys.

IMO Parents value and approach are closely related to family culture and background. The secondary school culture is constantly shaped by pupils and parents attitudes and cultures towards "the right kind of education" from both conscious and unconscious perspectives

Thus I would put my preference to schools with good aspects of cultural diversity and hoping that will result a more balanced mix.

They are normal. There’s always a few who work really hard, but most have lots of outside school activities, which are encouraged and my year V (year 10) has never had lots of homework, but she does keep on top of her workload and has lots of free time. Because their entrance papers are hard, girls do need to work to get in, but ridiculous levels should not be encouraged. They have regular end of topic tests in sciences and maths. There is a MIV (year 7) girl studying A’level maths, but the school do not want girls to sit exams early, other than their mother tongue (year 9), if not English. They are all capable of taking maths GCSE early, but parents are told no. The MIV girl sat it in year 6 and they have dealt with it, but it must be a timetabling headache for them. Lots of sport and creative time in the timetables. They have some their own GCSEs in a few subjects - art, history of art, drama, music, creative technology and computer science. Sports is very inclusive and they have lots of teams. We’ve found it to be very nurturing and the pastoral care has also been very good.

I’m getting very nervous hearing about numbers getting through to interview for each school. We’re through to interview/waiting on results for all school we applied Tiffins, Surbiton, WHS, PHS and LEH. (I hope this doesn’t seem like humble bragging - I know there a lots in the same position)

Is there a strong likelihood - if for example we may be in the bottom half (test score wise) of those called back we won’t get an offer at any of these schools?

Has anyone had this happen in previous years??

I know the sensible thing would be to work towards trying our best at the interviews and then put it out of heads until results but I’m just too far deep into that spiral of thought now!

I'm sorry about your experience! I'm surprised that they have cutoff's for each individual section, rather than an overall average (as i'd been led to believe by the registrar). If you dont mind sharing, do you know roughly what the cut off by each section was?

@SamPoodle123 i would think that since you haven’t massively tutored, it demonstrates your daughter is definitely more than capable of keeping up and being happy wherever she gets an offer. Finding out where she falls in the cohort at a consortium school may not be a valuable tool for deciding whether she could keep up since we know there is massive variation in prep and test taking conditions. If she gets into G&L from a state school with little tutoring, she will do great there and anywhere else she gets in. Go with wherever you and she think she will be happy. She truly will be what the schools are looking for as she’s not been overly tutored or taught how to do exams/be interviewed by her primary.

Thanks, I will try to stop worrying about it all. I have to trust the schools know what they are doing when making offers. As for me deciding what school, I have no clue lol. My dd has decided G&L is her first choice, after taking the exam there. I am hoping we can attend holder events to make the decision (if we are lucky enough to get more then one offer).

It's come up time and again on this thread, but just to reiterate: prep school kids don't spend 7 years being schooled in the 11+. They just do normal lessons like everyone else. Even in Year 5 and 6, they don't do endless prep for exams / don't have lots of interview guidance (at least not at my DD's prep). This idea that prep school kids effectively get a golden ticket to top senior schools is just a fallacy. Anyone who gets into a top London day school will need to be naturally bright, naturally curious, and naturally enthusiastic about learning. If any of those stories about insane levels of tutoring are actually true (I remain sceptical) they're as likely to be from extremely ambitious state school parents as prep school families.

From my own experience high level of tutoring is true for both state or prep or private (insane or not depends on tolorence level). I don't think it is hard for the parents to find evidence if they are in the process..

I don't quite agree. Many preps do prepare a lot with a lot of tests, interview prep, and teach VR and NVR, and those that don't, including ours, teach at least 1-2 ahead of state schools and often have a lot more homework.

I don't know about girls' schools, but for the very top boys' schools like St Paul, Westminster, King's and very top grammars, many parents have been preparing for years. Of course, the level of preparation differs but most are a lot more than minimal, certainly more than a few hours a week only in the last few months (the typical myth here in MN). Sure, if you go down the ranking, it will be less but that is only relative. Being new to this country for about a year, I am absolutely stunt by the competition for these top schools, and the extent some parents go into.

And having almost finished the process, I can vouch to say that a lot of hard work can compensate for someone who is less than a genius, and that's what most people do. If we have started a year earlier (of course we can't since we only arrived a year only), we would have done much better

London is competitive. But New York City? Next level.

@Taurus23 Hugs to you. I understand and can relate to your worry. I guess all of us are in the same boat. From what I am seeing around me, it’s the same set of girls being picked up by these popular SW london schools. Girls getting success in SPGS/G&L/LEH initial rounds are also the ones getting interview calls from PHS/WHS/Surbiton etc. This implies that the top scorers may choose super selectives while the bottom scorers will automatically become the top of the cohort to choose amazing and also selective schools like PHS/WHS/Surbiton etc. I hope this makes sense and relieves your worry a bit.

Think NYC secondary school is less fierce as London (more on school catchment and overflown to outskirt suburbs)

But yes university entrance in the states is a completely different level..

@PreplexJ , I agree with your view. Tutoring in academic or drama, music or sports are at a higher level for London secondary schools entrance. There is no way a 11 years old on Grade 8 music is dependent only on the school music department. Those highly train swimmers are in external clubs and not school swim coach in group for 40 mins per week. Great dedication from parents supporting their kids.

Was specifically focused on Trinity School, Collegiate School, The Brearley School, and Dalton School in NY.

But none of those extra-curricular activities are going to pass you the 11+.

@bjmin sorry didn't realised the NYC you meant Manhattan, that is a completely different problem to have 😥

Re the Prep Schools and 'prep' for 11+ I think even the most 'gentle unselective' prep will be doing quite a lot of 11+ preparation. I have friends who were at non pushy preps and didn't realise how much preparation they were doing compared to that at the state schools- even the ones that consistently send large numbers of children to independent school. These state schools generally do NOHING at all so most children will have tutors from Y5. But these tutors are also tutoring pretty much all the prep school children as well.
But this is fairly low level tutoring compared what certainly does go on within a certain subset of parents. It can be laughingly mindblowing and does seem to be somewhat limited to St Pauls (Both), G&L and KIngs. I have friends with DCs at all these schools and they have crazy stories they've heard at coffee mornings etc straight from parents who are very open about their tutoring. This carries on with University applications to the US etc. St Pauls junior boys head has had to email parents in the past to tell them to stop tutoring kids still at school.

One last thing to remember is that if the 11+ doesn't quite work out how you wanted there is quite a lot of movement in Y8, 9 especially. Certainly both my DCs have has a few kids leave and lots join at their schools despite having no formal 13+ entry etc.

@LondonMum20222 , agree which is why I said tutoring in academic plus the others for those looking for sport or music scholarships. Parents support is essential though some tends to be at too extreme level for our family and child.

Another debatable question. Schools claim that they are trying to make 11+ “untutorable”. Did anyone come across any computer based or paper based 11+ exam that was truly untutorable?

@Workhar I think everything is tutorable / benefit from practice - though admittedly to different degrees. The questions might be different but surely they draw on skills that can be practised to a point.
Difficult to say on the back of the actual papers as we do not get to see them - and, at least my DD, does not give us much detail on the exams ...

@Workhar I guess that's where the interviews might filter a bit. I think some of them do look for 'overtutored' from a few comments from admissions talks etc.

How did those at the Claremont interviews find them?

@secondaryquandries Claremont was lovely. Lovely teachers, lovely admissions staff, lovely parents, lovely grounds. My son was most enthused by the whole place. If only we could tow it 5 miles north.

I’m told it was just a gentle chat really - none of the quirkiness/challenge reported earlier is the thread.

@Trickleg interesting. I wonder if it depends on the interviewer. Or perhaps the child's perception. I agree the school and grounds are beautiful. Imagine looking out at that during lessons and at breaks. So lovely.