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Original poster

SW London Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023 (Part III)

997 replies

QuiteAJourney · 09/01/2023 18:58

Continuation from

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4697901-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-ii?page=40&reply=122947087

An opportunity for parents of DC applying to private and grammar schools in SW London for entry in year 7 in 2023 to share their journeys.

OP posts:
Chiswickmama · 14/01/2023 18:10

Just to say that the vast majority of schools send outcomes by email. This includes GL, consortium and SPGS so the the whole fat/thin thing is somewhat outdated. Obviously I can’t comment on every school but this was across 8 schools in the last 2 years. Hth. So please don’t panic about this as it’s largely N/A.

Workhar · 14/01/2023 18:15

Advice needed from experienced SPGS parents…is it a school only fit for kids who are naturally talented in academics? The kind of kids who don’t need much practice or the kind who never struggled to learn times table of 13 at the age of 6/7? Will a heavily tutored kid struggle in a school like SPGS, even if she manages to get admission?

bjmin · 14/01/2023 18:20

Workhar · 14/01/2023 18:15

Advice needed from experienced SPGS parents…is it a school only fit for kids who are naturally talented in academics? The kind of kids who don’t need much practice or the kind who never struggled to learn times table of 13 at the age of 6/7? Will a heavily tutored kid struggle in a school like SPGS, even if she manages to get admission?

They are not all geniuses. You can be a grinder and work hard and you'll do fine there. The entrance routine is long and challenging, if they make you an offer it's because the genuinely believe you'll do well. Don't second guess them.

Workhar · 14/01/2023 18:25

@bjmin thanks x

HighRopes · 14/01/2023 18:30

They’re not all geniuses. But I do think that at dd who doesn’t genuinely enjoy academic work in most subjects, and who doesn’t enjoy intellectual debate and discursiveness, might well be happier elsewhere. Nothing about ability to do the work, but about whether she finds it fun.

On the issue of sports and music for all
abilities, they do have lots of sports teams in netball and lacrosse for all abilities and also at least one orchestra/band and choir open to girls of every level of ability. There are tons of performance opportunities at all levels. I don’t have a dd at G8 anything, and I’m at school to hear her perform in various concerts at least two or three times a term.

Workhar · 14/01/2023 18:42

HighRopes · 14/01/2023 18:30

They’re not all geniuses. But I do think that at dd who doesn’t genuinely enjoy academic work in most subjects, and who doesn’t enjoy intellectual debate and discursiveness, might well be happier elsewhere. Nothing about ability to do the work, but about whether she finds it fun.

On the issue of sports and music for all
abilities, they do have lots of sports teams in netball and lacrosse for all abilities and also at least one orchestra/band and choir open to girls of every level of ability. There are tons of performance opportunities at all levels. I don’t have a dd at G8 anything, and I’m at school to hear her perform in various concerts at least two or three times a term.

Thanks x

Chiswickmama · 14/01/2023 19:08

Absolutely echo all that above. Neither of my girls are genius in any form (many seem to be through sheer hard work and application).

Equally though it is an academic school and proudly so and a lot of the pressure comes from the girls themselves so you need to know your own DD. Both of mine absolutely love school in all its forms and that’s key.

Londonintherain · 14/01/2023 20:26

Your post has really resonated with me UKUSMum. My daughter had a bad experience at G&L doing the ISEB test last year. She was left waiting for an hour to do the final section (of four) as somebody was in the loo. (I was waiting out in the cold watching everyone leave, but the classroom she was in didn’t finish for ages). It was not a familiar environment, and as you say, girls at preps were able to do the exam in 2 sessions from what we were told, while the state school kids (my daughter) had to do it all in one go. She was so hungry- was offered a single KitKat- but it was over many hours and she came out so glum, and disappointed and knew she didn’t do her best. It was no surprise when she wasn’t asked back for an interview. I called the school to complain and the registrar was nice enough but told me her scores, and pointed out that some sections were high enough but one was not. It was clear then that they choose purely on one test score, which I did find frustrating given our situation on test day. Interestingly, she did get an offer from both LU and PHS, who both use a different exam. As everyone always says it does work out in the end for most, but I really think this is a horrid, unnecessarily stressful process for all involved.

bjmin · 14/01/2023 20:46

Another bit of advice, for any school, call them up and ask for feedback on your DC's entrance exam performance BEFORE you accept the offer. That way, if you have any concern that a particular school is too much of a stretch for your DC you will be able to make a decision with much more information.

PreplexJ · 14/01/2023 20:48

Depends what is the definition of geniuses and heavily tutored.

I know 2 SPGS MIV girls. Similar to the girls who went to superselective London grammars, they spent hours per week doing 11+ prep on comprehension, VR, maths and NVR since year 4. In addition, they have a broader exposure on both academic and non academic activities at the same time, i.e. Debating club, writing club, LAMDA, IMO maths, multi instruments, lots and lots of sports. While the parents targeting grammar have stopped those activities during 11+ and focus on exam preparations.

The girls have full schedule of activities everyday and I'm not sure they generally enjoy all of them, they seems to be happy and excel in a lot of areas. Hats off to their parents...

bjmin · 14/01/2023 20:51

Let me add, there are some geniuses. A Year 7 girl doing A level Maths for example. Some are off the right side of the curve.

mantrama · 14/01/2023 21:09

I know a few girls at SPGS who literally did nothing but 11 plus prep for two years solid. It would start at 6.30am in the morning with mental maths to "wake up." They would do a sample paper in the car in the way to school. Every day for years. I am not making this up.,They had "wow" words every day that they had to work into sentences. Mums would have filing systems of various tests in their cars. Then it was a quick VR or NVR or similar on the way home. Then at least two more hours prep in the evenings, before an hour's music practise. Then they would work all weekends 8-5, with maybe a quick walk "for fresh air" once a day. All play dates were embargoed for at least two years, probably longer. The girls would talk about what they were going to do "after the 11 plus..." but this was when they were 8 or 9. Summer holidays were totally embargoed for the whole family, as were most birthday parties (except in very exceptional circumstances). I promise you I am not exaggerating this. If anything, it was more extreme then I am describing. The mums did not work and literally made a full time career out if it. The whole day was spent researching on the internet, printing off sample papers, co-ordinating prep schedules and progress charts, marking work, making special diets. They would tell you straight up, they had no time to meet for even a coffee. This really DOES happen. I have seen it more than a few times and some people think it's totally normal. If anything, they think they're not doing enough!

bjmin · 14/01/2023 21:14

mantrama · 14/01/2023 21:09

I know a few girls at SPGS who literally did nothing but 11 plus prep for two years solid. It would start at 6.30am in the morning with mental maths to "wake up." They would do a sample paper in the car in the way to school. Every day for years. I am not making this up.,They had "wow" words every day that they had to work into sentences. Mums would have filing systems of various tests in their cars. Then it was a quick VR or NVR or similar on the way home. Then at least two more hours prep in the evenings, before an hour's music practise. Then they would work all weekends 8-5, with maybe a quick walk "for fresh air" once a day. All play dates were embargoed for at least two years, probably longer. The girls would talk about what they were going to do "after the 11 plus..." but this was when they were 8 or 9. Summer holidays were totally embargoed for the whole family, as were most birthday parties (except in very exceptional circumstances). I promise you I am not exaggerating this. If anything, it was more extreme then I am describing. The mums did not work and literally made a full time career out if it. The whole day was spent researching on the internet, printing off sample papers, co-ordinating prep schedules and progress charts, marking work, making special diets. They would tell you straight up, they had no time to meet for even a coffee. This really DOES happen. I have seen it more than a few times and some people think it's totally normal. If anything, they think they're not doing enough!

I believe it happens. I saw parents on the school wall with laptops giving kids final pointers before the exam. My DD did nothing like that and continued to do an out-of-school activity for 7-10 hours per week all thru the 11+ process. But by all means, do as much work as you enjoy.

Workhar · 14/01/2023 21:25

mantrama · 14/01/2023 21:09

I know a few girls at SPGS who literally did nothing but 11 plus prep for two years solid. It would start at 6.30am in the morning with mental maths to "wake up." They would do a sample paper in the car in the way to school. Every day for years. I am not making this up.,They had "wow" words every day that they had to work into sentences. Mums would have filing systems of various tests in their cars. Then it was a quick VR or NVR or similar on the way home. Then at least two more hours prep in the evenings, before an hour's music practise. Then they would work all weekends 8-5, with maybe a quick walk "for fresh air" once a day. All play dates were embargoed for at least two years, probably longer. The girls would talk about what they were going to do "after the 11 plus..." but this was when they were 8 or 9. Summer holidays were totally embargoed for the whole family, as were most birthday parties (except in very exceptional circumstances). I promise you I am not exaggerating this. If anything, it was more extreme then I am describing. The mums did not work and literally made a full time career out if it. The whole day was spent researching on the internet, printing off sample papers, co-ordinating prep schedules and progress charts, marking work, making special diets. They would tell you straight up, they had no time to meet for even a coffee. This really DOES happen. I have seen it more than a few times and some people think it's totally normal. If anything, they think they're not doing enough!

@mantrama what happens next, post their entry into St. Paul’s? Do they continue working this hard to excel within their cohort?

And thank you all for answering my question.

FriendlyMom · 14/01/2023 21:28

When my son applied for the 8+ I experienced firsthand how brutal the process is - 300+ kids for 20 some places in the most selective schools - this in a way prepared me for the 11+. He was lucky to get a spot in the two schools of his choice - one being very selective. We were afraid he will not manage the pressure - we never even thought he would make it - the year before he changed schools he was in a state primary which dropped the ball during covid. The school assured us his exam and interview results positioned him well and we took their guidance.
Since then I've had a firsthand (sort of) experience of having a child at such school and I can say - schools make mistakes. Two of the kids in his year group already left. Some have been tutored before, during the exam and after being accepted, just to keep up.
I agree that hard working kids would and can do well. However, the pace in those schools is so fast and seeing firsthand the level of teaching and work required - it would take a lot of hard work and there are not enough hours in the day.
If my dd is not up to the challenge, I would not put her through just for the sake of it. I think (after going through the process once, and being blindsided by league tables), it takes more than hard work - enjoying the process is key, going with easiness - that is why I believe that whilst a child does not need to be a genius (and few are), it helps when things come to them easy(ier). That is why some children continue being tutored even after securing a place in a top tier school. Not sure if that answers your question @Workhar.

Workhar · 14/01/2023 21:34

@FriendlyMom thank you for sharing your point of view. Very helpful.

FriendlyMom · 14/01/2023 21:42

@Workhar what I am trying to say is - we know best our children and how much they can cope with. To some children a competitive, driven environment can be off-putting, to others it can be a blessing - our son blossomed - he was driven by his classmates and wanted to show the best of himself. He loves it. But as I mentioned, some of his classmates did not thrive as well.
You know your child best and, ultimately, when a child is happy they thrive and give their best - that is the purpose of the school - to bring the best of our children, because the more confident they grow to be - the more successful they will be. And it is all relative at the end of the day. Success means different things to different people.

MomFromSE · 14/01/2023 21:44

@mantrama that's really alarming.

SamPoodle123 · 14/01/2023 21:45

@mantrama wow, this sounds just so wrong. How do they expect to maintain this kind of level once they are in the school!? I honestly think, if you need to study this much to get into a certain school, it is probably not the school for you! It is possible to pass the exam without such a crazy amount of prep.

We did not try for SPGS, but passed the exams for all schools applied for (G&L, Putney and Emanuel - also applied to FHSS). My dd is from a state school and only started prep from end of year 5 (end of May) because we did not realize she would do the 11+ route. She did not do crazy amounts and even did 3 weeks of no studying during the summer holiday! (not by my choice, she was abroad with her father and he would not get her to do anything). She kept all her activities during the 11+ This means she did something 6 days a week, and weekends two activities daily (this was all by her choice, as I thought she should cut one or two out for a term, but no, she did not want to). I would say she had a relaxed attitude to studying. If I had to drill her constantly, I would wonder if these are the right schools for her. It is possible to get in without doing a crazy amount of prep.

But I do think many get scared when reading the types of post you just wrote and feel they need to live up to the same standards of studying. I am sure there are loads of girls that do this kind of schedule. Makes me sad for the dc, who seem to miss out on their childhood!

Workhar · 14/01/2023 21:50

@FriendlyMom thank you very much. This has given me a lot of clarity.

Chiswickmama · 14/01/2023 21:55

@bjmin Can I just check, where did you get this fact from? Do you have a DD in the MIV?

mantrama · 14/01/2023 21:57

Workhar - it seems that once the girls get into the schools, the mums do chill a bit. But they are still ferocious by most standards. Everyone is different I guess!

Chiswickmama · 14/01/2023 21:59

It does get slightly irksome when you read some of the SPGS tales. It happens year in year out, often from people who don’t have DDs in the school. By all means, believe whatever you like and yes, there are some for whom this school is the be all but equally take the measure of all points of view. There are “normal” children at SPGS, whatever that means. They work hard but do not expect that to be at the expense of all fun nor that the environment is uncompetitive at many other super selective schools.

PreplexJ · 14/01/2023 22:07

@Chiswickmama from the SPGS parents point of view, of course don't want DD's be associate with "abnormal" or not having fun.. It is all perspectives..

Redapples81 · 14/01/2023 22:12

mantrama · 14/01/2023 21:09

I know a few girls at SPGS who literally did nothing but 11 plus prep for two years solid. It would start at 6.30am in the morning with mental maths to "wake up." They would do a sample paper in the car in the way to school. Every day for years. I am not making this up.,They had "wow" words every day that they had to work into sentences. Mums would have filing systems of various tests in their cars. Then it was a quick VR or NVR or similar on the way home. Then at least two more hours prep in the evenings, before an hour's music practise. Then they would work all weekends 8-5, with maybe a quick walk "for fresh air" once a day. All play dates were embargoed for at least two years, probably longer. The girls would talk about what they were going to do "after the 11 plus..." but this was when they were 8 or 9. Summer holidays were totally embargoed for the whole family, as were most birthday parties (except in very exceptional circumstances). I promise you I am not exaggerating this. If anything, it was more extreme then I am describing. The mums did not work and literally made a full time career out if it. The whole day was spent researching on the internet, printing off sample papers, co-ordinating prep schedules and progress charts, marking work, making special diets. They would tell you straight up, they had no time to meet for even a coffee. This really DOES happen. I have seen it more than a few times and some people think it's totally normal. If anything, they think they're not doing enough!

I have seen a few examples of this too. It is breath taking. It makes me feel really, really sad for those children.