Secondary education wobbles - I need some Mumsnet stabilisers

[wednesdaynamesep]

DC1 will be starting secondary school next year. We live in an area with a reasonably good state high school, but several parents are deciding to send their children to private school instead. It means I’m being subjected to tactless conversations about how crap the state school is, and all the so-called issues with it, which I know is necessary for them to justify their own choices. I am also aware that these parents also all have other things in common too: objections to neuro-diverse children in their kids classes; complaining about not enough homework being given to kids; general views on education that I think seem very old-fashioned.

However, despite knowing this, the criticisms are getting to me and I’m now worrying about DC1 to the point it’s costing me sleep. The state school our DC will go to is among the top 10 in the three constituencies close to us. But it is a catchment area which mixes kids from higher earning families and ‘riff-raff’ as one of the mothers revoltingly said (she was talking about the poverty in the area). Whenever I quietly think through my views on state vs private, I feel confident that state would be best, over-all, for my DC. But my confidence slips every single time I bump into another person’s endless stream of negativity.

I say nothing in response to all of their comments, because I know anything I say will be interpreted as defensive or sour-grapes. (If pushed, we could afford private, but it would be very tough).

DH and I have had endless conversations, and we’re sticking to our state-school choice, but I feel I need to find a way to reassure myself that, come what may, this will work for our children, and even MAKE it work for them if necessary.

My plan of action

1. Avoid these parents (difficult because they are DC1s friends)
2. Identify families similar to DH and I who send their kids to this school and ask how their children are getting on
3. Research the school more (so far, the biggest ‘objection’ I can find is that not all the children come from high achieving wealthy families)
4. Speak to primary school teachers who have sent their own children there

Then

1. Come onto Mumsnet and ask mothers how they support their kids' secondary education. DH and I are feeling we need to spend time every week checking on our chikdren's education, helping them if need be etc. Problem is, even now at Primary school, I don’t actually know what they’re doing in class, and asking them doesn’t help at all either. Also, my kids get very grumpy when I push them wrt homework or doing a bit extra when they’re stuck on something.

So, how do you do it? How do you keep tabs on what they’re doing and where they need help. How do you motivate them? I’d massively value your tips and strategies.

How do you define “success”?

You seem to be using very narrow and outdated criteria: member of a ‘profession’ and high-ish pay packet (although there are many jobs that pay more than being a family barrister).

@Geville

Well you are on of the very very few who has some compassion and understanding.

But would I think the way I do if I didn’t actually know ND children? I can’t honestly say I would. I would certainly know from my liberal progressive left-leaning blah blah tendencies that I should do better, and I would certainly try. But would I feel it in my bones the way my children and their friends have shown me to? I honestly don’t know.

We never encountered anyone like you at the school my children attended.

I believe you. My friends have had some distressing experiences. I should point out that I'm not sure I was a compassionate child though. Certainly not the day my dad caught me and my friends.

And there is no one like you at the private school my DC attend either.

This doesn’t surprise me really. As I said in my OP (I think) the people I’m referring to who contemplate private are the same people who think ND kids like F shouldn’t be in mainstream schools, and that poor people are 'riff raff'. So I’m afraid, there’s certainly a small group of parents like this heading to our nearest private school. And I do think their kids will pick up their views and carry them into the school too.

My children never ever talk about the ND kids at our school. But if you listened to these parents, the ND kids are undermining their children’s education and affecting them in class. I am willing to bet that when precious possum gets in the car, the first question is probably, ‘Did F do anything today?’ And the child learns to feed that interest and acquires negative views. That’s my hypothesis, anyway, and why I try to keep my mouth shut.

The same level of deviousness exists it seems, wherever either of them go. There are some very damaged children out there and they hone in and find my kids and seem to enjoy bullying them. They must get something out of it as they don't stop. Unless they are caught. And then they find other underhand ways to carry it on.

This is heartbreaking and terrifying. Do you know if the school addresses this with the bullies parents? I ask because I have a suspicion our school tries to manage it in the school when I sometimes think parents need to be called in and told in no uncertain terms that that won’t be tolerated.

*These children exist at private school and state school. I have seen them in both settings.

If I could find a kind school, with genuinely kind people, I'd send my children there, in a heartbeat. Private or state. It wouldn't matter. It's just human decency that counts. But when you've got ASD, no one cares.

The fact that most, if not all, ASD adults have C-PTSD says it all. Rejection after rejection after rejection means it's impossible to function 'normally' or trust anyone.*

I can totally understand how this happens. It’s devastating. I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this.

You really have no idea what Dc turn out like. It’s just supposition and dislike of private schools. Parents support their Dc in choices regardless of educational choices. I don’t understand why you worry about other parents. In just over 6 months they will be history.

@EastLondonObserver

I am using the definitions the parents used at 11. They thought the grammar would turn Dc into high earning professional people. Like themselves. They were an exclusive self selecting group. They talked about ambition a lot. For many Dc, i am not making the definitions. The parents did. They were people like management consultants, surgeons, BBC executives, and similar. They are high achievers and thought DC would be too. Years of tuition to get the 11 plus because failure was out of the question. They might not have said “riff raff” but no child from a Council estate ever went near their homes!

We left them to it. Their choice. It wasn’t ours.

So your view of ‘success’ is entirely defined by a parent’s view of what a child should achieve, rather than the child’s wishes themselves. Perhaps the kids are happy not being surgeons - it’s a relatively well paid but rather stressful job. And the BBC’s market share is being eroded by streaming services and social media - perhaps some of those ‘office jobs’ you deride are in new and growing areas.

And you think it would have all been different if only these silly parents had sent their kids not to a grammar, but whatever private school you paid for?

Sadly this thread - and in particular your contributions - has confirmed all my worst stereotypical visions of private school fetishising parents.

A fair number of people on my degree course came from private education. My DH was also privately educated. None of us are better than the other - we've ended with the same degrees in the same job and pay scale (teachers) but I was state educated.

Don't get me wrong, they were probably taught in smaller classes and had better opportunities presented to them due to their private education (i.e. extra curricular clubs and trips). They just happened to choose the same career that I did from my state school. The money spent on their education certainly wasn't wasted but it doesn't guarantee a high flying, high paying or even a satisfying career later down the line. I think there is often a misconception that a private education will result in doctors, dentists, scientists, lawyers...

I can absolutely say the (state educated) teenagers that I teach who are supported at home with homework and things like reading are the ones who thrive.

That sounds,so hard for you op, especially when you know you’re making a better choice by state educating your kids that those privately educating theirs, I’ve read your reasons for state, and you’re so making the right choice. I can’t fathom why they are doing their kids such a disservice. You need to just accept that you’re making rhe better choice and your kids will be better off for it. And feel sorry for them in their ignorance making such poor educational choices,

I teach in an independent.
Let's just say your friends are going to be in for a shock if they don't like neurodiverse children in their dc's classes.
We have many ND dc and the school is richer for it.

I suspect the OP's friends don't have an issue with ND children per se but only to the ones who display disruptive behaviour in the classroom.

I'd be surprised if they had issues with the child with high functioning autism who sits quietly in the classroom and gets on with his work, whilst having meltdowns at home (this is my nephew who is at a private school).

And private schools are generally not keen on the first type of children, whilst being quite happy with the second.

Thank you for your understanding. It seems like you are one of the extremely rare people who understand.

There are so few, and they are always the ones with children who are ND or have relatives who are ND and therefore know the extreme toll it takes on the whole family.

People looking in on my life think I have it all. Nice house, two kids, private school, husband who earns "enough".

But they have no idea the impact that ND has on our mental and physical health, the extent to which my life has been turned upside and inside out through having two children who have ASD. I am traumatised by proxy through my children's never-ending heart-breaks.

All the milestones you hoped for - playdates, birthday parties, sleepovers, best friends, in the future boyfriends or girlfriends, parties, holidays abroad with friends etc - they're all obliterated and instead it's through all their schooling it's never ending phone calls to the school or to professionals to help you find out what you can do to ease even slightly their very very difficult passage through life.

And it never stops. It. Never. Stops. And you think for one moment something positive is happening - and poof - it's evaporated in a second because someone NT decided to get involved and it only takes one devious NT to play a ND into some very nasty nightmarish corners.

Sorry, I'm having hard time at the moment but parents with NT children - for the most part - have absolutely ZERO idea the trauma within the family setting of ND children and families. Studies have shown that Mums of autistic children experience almost the same levels of anxiety and stress as Mums of soldiers who are battling in a war zone.

So if any NT parent is reading this -please include the ND kid, please ask your NT child to be aware and be kind. One kind word or phrase in a day can make the ND happy for a week.

An invitation to party, to be included - that makes things for months.

Didn't Amal Clooney go to one of those grammars of which you are so dismissive@TizerorFizz? She is only one of the top human rights barristers in the world. Nothing special eh!

Oh goodness me! I don’t know her mum! I said people we knew. ????

My point is not whether you know her mother. My point is that there are very accomplished people who went to the schools you are snootily dismissing.

You are in the eye of the storm now OP. Once your DCs are secondary you’ll find you have much less contact with the parents of your DC’s new friends and also the parents from primary. Just smile and nod for the time being. My eldest is now applying for 6th form and coffees/nights out with the old primary parents gang I am transported back to the bad old days of school application talk. But it’s a bit different now because they are all interested in different A-level subjects so the comparisons are less obvious.

I found that the final terms of Yr6 you can give your DC much more independence & avoid school gates and talk of it all. I feel smug that I'm getting my DCs a great education for free whilst others get themselves into a frenzy over tutors and private schools.

This is a really useful thread, thanks OP. We've made a similar choice - we'd originally planned private but the costs have just mounted too much, plus also he was so much happier with the feel of the comp and I feel he'll have more chances to shine.

But it's tough - a number of my closest friends are very wealthy and putting their kids through private without financial stress, and spend half their time complaining about the holidays and the amount of extra-curricular stuff their kids do through school. And then all the chat of entrance exams, people justifying their choices, etc etc. Fortunately no one as rude as you've encountered but it's tricky to navigate.

Thanks to all who've shared their advice and experiences on this thread!