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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Secondary education wobbles - I need some Mumsnet stabilisers

91 replies

wednesdaynamesep · 05/12/2022 11:08

DC1 will be starting secondary school next year. We live in an area with a reasonably good state high school, but several parents are deciding to send their children to private school instead. It means I’m being subjected to tactless conversations about how crap the state school is, and all the so-called issues with it, which I know is necessary for them to justify their own choices. I am also aware that these parents also all have other things in common too: objections to neuro-diverse children in their kids classes; complaining about not enough homework being given to kids; general views on education that I think seem very old-fashioned.

However, despite knowing this, the criticisms are getting to me and I’m now worrying about DC1 to the point it’s costing me sleep. The state school our DC will go to is among the top 10 in the three constituencies close to us. But it is a catchment area which mixes kids from higher earning families and ‘riff-raff’ as one of the mothers revoltingly said (she was talking about the poverty in the area). Whenever I quietly think through my views on state vs private, I feel confident that state would be best, over-all, for my DC. But my confidence slips every single time I bump into another person’s endless stream of negativity.

I say nothing in response to all of their comments, because I know anything I say will be interpreted as defensive or sour-grapes. (If pushed, we could afford private, but it would be very tough).

DH and I have had endless conversations, and we’re sticking to our state-school choice, but I feel I need to find a way to reassure myself that, come what may, this will work for our children, and even MAKE it work for them if necessary.

My plan of action

  1. Avoid these parents (difficult because they are DC1s friends)
  2. Identify families similar to DH and I who send their kids to this school and ask how their children are getting on
  3. Research the school more (so far, the biggest ‘objection’ I can find is that not all the children come from high achieving wealthy families)
  4. Speak to primary school teachers who have sent their own children there

Then

  1. Come onto Mumsnet and ask mothers how they support their kids' secondary education. DH and I are feeling we need to spend time every week checking on our chikdren's education, helping them if need be etc. Problem is, even now at Primary school, I don’t actually know what they’re doing in class, and asking them doesn’t help at all either. Also, my kids get very grumpy when I push them wrt homework or doing a bit extra when they’re stuck on something.

So, how do you do it? How do you keep tabs on what they’re doing and where they need help. How do you motivate them? I’d massively value your tips and strategies.

OP posts:
NellyBarney · 07/12/2022 09:32

Teacher retention and availability of GCSE/A level subjects is my greatest worry, and you would need to be able to step in if that is the case. My dc prefer science/maths, but our only catchment school doesn't offer separate sciences. They also have a massive problem retaining physics teachers, so A level physics last year couldn't be taught- kids got based for 1 lesson/week to a neighbouring school, and rest of lessons they were left with an out of depth biology teacher and worksheets. In a situation like this, dh and I could probably cover most of the syllabus and also arrange online lessons (Khan academy or similar), but it is a scary thought. Overall, it seems the science in state secondary schools, especially further maths, physics and computer science, and practical chemistry, that are under threat as way to few teachers, so the schools which already have problems (low performance, some difficult families, behaviour) lose out as well sought after teachers can choose where they work. If your dc want to do A levels English, History and Psychology, they will have most likel the same support/teaching at every state secondary than at a private school.

Geville · 07/12/2022 09:43

JJ8765 · 06/12/2022 19:19

DS got a free place at private (not a snobby one) and it gradually filled up with ND kids as the years went on and they struggled with mainstream noise / environment / class size so unless it’s one of the private schools that deliberately screens out ND kids they may find the school has a higher concentration of them than mainstream. My other DS is ND so I could spot even those who weren’t diagnosed. Many parents chose private because their kids were ND and too able for special schools! And yes many private schools have seen a drop in kids getting into top unis over recent years as unis rebalance their intake. This wasn’t why my ds went - he was extremely shy and super bright so a smaller school with a bursary was right for him. He would have done academically just as well in state.

If I could give a thumbs up a million times to this post I would.

contrary to your post OP, our private school is at least 20% ND.

As this poster describes once you understand ND which I do as I have married into it and have two ND kids you start to spot those who are, even without a diagnosis.

For some of those with ND kids private school is a safe haven after being bullied for years in the state system. The pastoral care helps smooth all sorts of bumps along the way. It’s not perfect by any means but it’s also not about “being snobby”. It’s actually a life line. After endless bullying at state school my kids have felt safer at private school.

I’d never share this with anyone I know.

im sure there are some brilliant state schools for ND but there were none local to us that could give us the support we needed.

So our hands were tied.

Please let me know if your children are befriending ND children at their school because if they’re not and all this talk of “my kids get a proper grounding in life by mixing with everyone” then that’s not really true. It’s just virtue signalling.

EVERYONE ignored my DC at school. So yes you can be aware but still be unhelpful. You’re still choosing to “mix with your own”.

So fill your boots with your moral authority but I don’t buy it. That was never our experience and my kids were constantly excluded by all the other children despite being kind and patient and calm. So enjoy the neurodiversity at your state school while simultaneously ignoring it and feel good about it.

Thepaintedgarden · 07/12/2022 09:59

To answer your last question, I think the amount of support any child needs at secondary school depends on the child. Honestly my first needs no input from us at all except to listen to things that they found interesting.
My second had some issues in certain subjects to start with which we were clearly told about by the teachers and we were luckily in a position to help them with.
No teenager wants to be micro managed but they do want their parents to be interested as well.
My go-to tends to be "anything exciting/ different happen today?" I ask a couple of times a week "have you had any homework back? Any test scores back?"
If they were struggling then I guess I'd do more of that.
Don't worry about secondary schools and homework (in my opinion) - often schools give it because it's expected by parents rather than being useful.
I'm in a position where maybe quarter of my friends have sent their children to independent schools. Their children have mostly done well, some have spectacularly not done well and basically left schools with no qualifications to speak of. All my friends' children have attended state schools have also done well with one or two exceptions. I would say in my personal experience the state schools have been better at getting them to truly reach their potential; the indies have been a bit happier letting them coast.
None of my friends would be crass enough to comment on my school choices but I do think your school parents probably feel they have to justify a £20k a year spend on each child. I certainly knew some primary school mums like that (not friends) and if we bump into each other now I can see them computing the vast amount they've spent on education and the lack of benefit over and above what my children have achieved.
Honestly, don't stress.

Remaker · 07/12/2022 10:31

I’m not in the UK but I can assure you that your experience is universal. There is nobody more terrifying than a middle class left leaning mum who has opted for private school. She knows she’s wrong but she is determined to be right. So she tips shit on your choice to make hers the right one, the only one.

I know a load of parents who succumbed to the private is best rhetoric and their kids ended up transferring to state school due to bullying. Private school is not always best.

I wouldn’t say I monitor my kids’ schools more than any other parent. I trust them to get it right . If I need to get involved I do. Consider the many advantages you are giving your child by letting them mix with all parts of society.

wednesdaynamesep · 07/12/2022 12:12

@Geville

I just wrote you the longest reply, then my battery died and I lost it all. So irritating. But I really want to come back to this and will later today or tomorrow.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 07/12/2022 17:48

When I bump into DDs friends who went to grammar school, I tend to find they didn’t do
much with their degrees. They have jobs but nothing special. My DD was independently educated and has done better than all of them. They have been to great universities but my money bought something extra. So I compute too. But it’s in my favour mostly.

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2022 17:50

I also quite like that they are surprised DD has done well. At primary they thought their DC were world beaters!

cansu · 07/12/2022 17:55

Once your child leaves primary you will never meet any other parents anyway. The school gate chat does not exist at secondary as kids make their own way home. Just smile and nod for now.

bellocchild · 07/12/2022 18:12

Education is on the whole much the same in the state and independent education sectors: same books, same curriculum, same exams. The difference is in class size (which is not massive) and in behaviour and discipline. If the state school has good standards, and most of the better ones do, it shouldn't be a problem. I've taught in both, and quite frankly some independent schools lack rigour and some of the teaching would not be acceptable in the state sector.

AriettyHomily · 07/12/2022 18:15

It was a unspoken rule at our primary, no one spoke about options. No one compares reading levels in yR or what table they sat in. So much easier.

EastLondonObserver · 08/12/2022 09:57

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2022 17:48

When I bump into DDs friends who went to grammar school, I tend to find they didn’t do
much with their degrees. They have jobs but nothing special. My DD was independently educated and has done better than all of them. They have been to great universities but my money bought something extra. So I compute too. But it’s in my favour mostly.

Out of interest what are the jobs that are ‘nothing special’ and what is it your DD is doing by way of contrast?

Mardyface · 08/12/2022 10:02

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2022 17:48

When I bump into DDs friends who went to grammar school, I tend to find they didn’t do
much with their degrees. They have jobs but nothing special. My DD was independently educated and has done better than all of them. They have been to great universities but my money bought something extra. So I compute too. But it’s in my favour mostly.

Oh hello! You sound lovely. Hopefully your money has bought them kindness, happiness, and a sense of inner purpose too. Probably a much better sort of kindness happiness and sense of purpose than anyone else too and that's the main thing.

TizerorFizz · 08/12/2022 10:43

Yes. It absolutely has. She’s a family barrister. So working with distressed people nearly every day of the week and advocating for them. What are the others doing? Office jobs, working for charities, “doing very little” in the words of their parents, working in a bank, and similar. I think my DD has demonstrated kindness, sense of purpose and inner happiness. I also fail to see why on earth anyone thinks privately educated DC don’t have these qualities? Of course they do. We are do ludicrously polarised in our political
positions, we fail to see the good in everyone.

Mardyface · 08/12/2022 10:51

Well, it isn't all about what you demonstrate. I didn't suggest your DD DIDN'T have any of those things I just really doubt your money paid for it. Human beings are not like machines where you put everything in and then what comes out is what is of value. It is the person themselves who is of value. You can't be competitive about who is better than whom - and if you are, God help your kid if they make a mistake, have an accident, get in a relationship with someone who isn't all they seem etc.

You can argue you have bought your child a better education (I disagree but it's an argument) but you seem to be saying you have bought a better person with your money. Which is ridiculous.

KindergartenKop · 08/12/2022 11:01

Argh this thread is awful!

State schools are fine, but the government doesn't fund them well enough, that's why the demand for private exists. State schools don't define the outcomes of kids, home has a much more significant impact.

Private schools aren't full of posh twats, most are just kids who come from families who want them to do well and have the money to pay to help them. They also often select on ability so obviously they will get a higher % of 9s than a school that doesn't.

Parents who bitch about the 'other' school, either way, are immature. They are really not seeing the full picture or appreciating that 95% of parents are just doing the best they can with the choices they have got.

wednesdaynamesep · 08/12/2022 12:45

@Geville - Take two on the reply I wanted to send. I'm sorry, it turned into an essay.

By complete coincidence, my three closest friends each have children who are ND - four children in total (I’ll refer to them as A, B, C and D). And I have another friend who is currently not talking to me because I gently suggested her DD might be ND and she didn’t appreciate the intervention at all (I’ll call this child E). And DS has another ND child in his class (F). This coincidence has made me think ND is way more common than most appreciate.

Against this backdrop, I have my own childhood, where I grew up with a child who had severe learning disabilities, communication problems, health issues and physical disabilities. We didn’t know him very well because he was sent to a ‘special school’ at a very young age, but he’d be back during school holidays. But I have a vivid memory of a group of us being told off in no uncertain terms, by my father, when he caught us crowding around this child and mimicking him, mocking him, and he was cowering terrified away from us. We were probably about 6 years old, but I do remember feeling incredible shame. Today though, I wonder whether that sense of shame was because I understood WHY what I’d done was wrong, or because I knew I’d disappointed my father.

My son, now a little older than I was at that time, is best friends with A. They sit together in class, play together at school, and DS goes on play dates to his house. The first play date did not go well. DS accidentally hit A when they were both throwing things at each other, and A spectacularly lost it. It really really scared DS, and he cried and was shaking and just wanted to go home because “everyone hates me and thinks I’m bad”. So one of the toughest steps I had to face up to- personally - was allowing DS to go on unaccompanied playdates to A’s house in case this happened again (A won’t come to our house). I also had this massive dilemma over whether I needed to sit DS down and explain how A sometimes did things differently in advance, so I could protect him. But A didn’t have a diagnosis at that stage, and I was fearful of making DS anticipate events / behaviour and make it an issue when it might not be - essentially putting ideas into his head.

In the end I said nothing to him, kept it light and casual, but I did ask A’s mum to phone me if I needed to come fetch DS. There have been other issues, but A’s parents are very alive to it, and they manage it in a way that DS appreciates. E.g. A is allowed time in his room away from everyone and they step in and play with DS until A is ready to re-join. I’ve never had to fetch him, and he always looks forward to play dates.

Then A got his diagnosis. DS came home full of chat about it, explaining it all to me as A had explained it to him, using unfiltered inappropriate child language. A told DS that his type of ND is different to F’s (the child in his class). According to DS, A’s is mainly about school work while F sometimes goes ‘cuckoo la-la mental’ - and yes, we did talk about the language. It’s not true that A’s is only about school work - he just loathes homework! - but I marvelled at how these two small boys simply reached an understanding and then moved on.

About F. F generates mutterings among parents at the gate because he can be violent, will throw chairs, run into the traffic if not supervised, and frequently has to be physically taken out of the class for his own and other children’s protection. Despite the mutterings, DS has only ever once, in all the years he has shared a class with F, come home with an issue, and that was after F managed to really hurt him and several other children on a very bad day. DS was justified in his fear and upset, and I was livid with the school for dropping the ball and not managing it all better. Lessons were learned. But I can’t help feeling that if my child isn’t regularly bringing home problems and isn’t distressed, then there isn’t actually an issue that exists outside the parents imagination and horror at behaviour that looks really bad on paper.

Recently DS has been talking about F in the context of playing at school, and I casually asked him how F was getting on. DS said “oh he doesn’t hit as much anymore mummy because he’s learning to use his words”. Again, I found myself quietly marvelling at his easy acceptance and ability to reach a simple understanding. He could just be parroting a teacher, but ‘using your words’ is a common refrain at the school for all the children so he could also have connected it all himself.

If these children were in the country I came from, their experiences would be so different. A would be viewed as the product of a mother who molly-coddled him and she would be judged harshly; B (dyslexic) would get absolutely nowhere at school; C would probably still be non-verbal and in a ‘special school’; D would be seen as an eccentric child genius, tolerated because he’s a genius; and E would be viewed exactly as she currently is in the UK: a child who can’t make friends because she’s nasty and mean. And F would be being beaten with a cane for his behaviour.

All of this is a complete revelation to me. I actually don’t know how to put words to it, but the way my children have no judgement, don’t gossip about these children, just get on with it and figure it out for themselves, feels almost miraculous to me. My children would never ever behave the way I did to that child I mentioned earlier. Icant even imagine them doing it. My acquired insights (which you might disagree with) are that I should always step back, resist trying to over-explain in case I derail things, and trust the parents of the ND children and even the school to keep things ticking along. I feel proud of the remarkable little people that my children are, but I don’t think much of it has to do with me: I think it’s their environment and social context, and I think I could even screw things up.

This is all about ND, because it started as a response to your comment, but race is a big thing for me too. My children simply don’t see racial differences. I have never ever had a question about different skin colours, or languages etc. Given how much race has featured in my life, this blows my mind and it feels extraordinary to me. Like a miracle really. It’s something I fiercely defend, but again my involvement is minimal, and I think it has more to do with their social environment.

And I would extend this to poverty as well. So far my children have been shielded from this in the UK, apart from visits to Africa where I’ve tried to explain it very carefully, but nervous I’ll mess up. I do think they’ll learn more from assimilating real experiences via their social environment, as they have done so far. This is one of the things I’m juggling, and I’m weighing it against the stuff I mentioned in my OP.

I don’t want secondary school to change what is working for my children. So far I’ve felt like I’ve stumbled accidentally into a good thing that has worked for my children. I don’t want their progress de-railed or set on a different course.

OP posts:
EastLondonObserver · 08/12/2022 12:51

TizerorFizz · 08/12/2022 10:43

Yes. It absolutely has. She’s a family barrister. So working with distressed people nearly every day of the week and advocating for them. What are the others doing? Office jobs, working for charities, “doing very little” in the words of their parents, working in a bank, and similar. I think my DD has demonstrated kindness, sense of purpose and inner happiness. I also fail to see why on earth anyone thinks privately educated DC don’t have these qualities? Of course they do. We are do ludicrously polarised in our political
positions, we fail to see the good in everyone.

I’m sure your DD is lovely. But come on, are you seriously trying to tell us family barristers - aka “divorce lawyers” - are motivated primarily through the goodness of their hearts and the nice pay packet, prestige and power, plus perhaps what was available when they applied for jobs, have nothing to do with it.

Moreover you say someone working for a charity is doing ‘nothing much’ with their lives.

Finally, this incredible kindness was purchased through private schooling.

funniest post I’ve read in a while!

wednesdaynamesep · 08/12/2022 12:53

@TizerorFizz

You make me laugh. How do you manage to segue from this ...

"Don’t want to end up like X and y’all (y’s) parents”! How snobby of your children!

...to this...

They have jobs but nothing special.

... without any sense of embarrassment? It makes this other comment by you especially ironic:

At least going private you don’t make comments about other parents like that.

Or do you think being snobby about parents is not on, but being snobby about the kids is fine?

OP posts:
wednesdaynamesep · 08/12/2022 12:56

@EastLondonObserver . I know, right ... 😂😂😂 It's not a contribution to the thread that is exactly selling private schools to me.

OP posts:
wednesdaynamesep · 08/12/2022 13:04

KindergartenKop · 08/12/2022 11:01

Argh this thread is awful!

State schools are fine, but the government doesn't fund them well enough, that's why the demand for private exists. State schools don't define the outcomes of kids, home has a much more significant impact.

Private schools aren't full of posh twats, most are just kids who come from families who want them to do well and have the money to pay to help them. They also often select on ability so obviously they will get a higher % of 9s than a school that doesn't.

Parents who bitch about the 'other' school, either way, are immature. They are really not seeing the full picture or appreciating that 95% of parents are just doing the best they can with the choices they have got.

The only thing I'd add was this thread started due to horrible negative things being said about the state school, by several parents who are considering private, irrespective of whether parents who have chosen the state school are in ear-shot or not. It has been pretty awful.

So it's not surprising that these type of parents, who definitely exist (just scroll through this thread), are dominating the discussion.

Of course, not ALL who send their children to private school are snobby, judgemental twats. But you can bet your last pound that if a snobby judgemental twat could afford to send their child to a private school they would.

A bit like how not all Brexit voters are racists, but it's not a stretch to see how every single racist probably voted for Brexit.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 08/12/2022 13:38

@wednesdaynamesep
I think you started this thread just to get a reaction! You don’t like private schools or these parents. Just avoid them. We make Choices to suit ourselves and our budgets. It’s that simple. You will find lots of people you do not care for in life. Seem out the ones like you!

I merely pointed out that parents who paid for years of tuition to get a grammar place, completely trashed the local secondary outside the school, still ended up with not overly successful Dc. Not what they aimed for at 11 most certainly! The Dc took control of their own lives, as the Dc in your school will do. I’d just get on with yours.

Itsoktogiveup · 08/12/2022 13:46

TizerorFizz · 05/12/2022 14:55

@wednesdaynamesep
Children at private schools are mostly perfectly well adjusted and understand diversity when it comes to work. I assume you are perfectly well adjusted and accepting of others? So why are privately educated DC now unable to be like you?

Your DDs friends’ parents are justifying their choices. As you seek to justify yours. I can guarantee these people won’t stay as your friends when you don’t have education in common. Why would you want them anyway? They just make you doubt yourself and your decisions. If you and DH agree, just do it. Use the state school and get on with it. You come across as doubtful and even slightly envious. Why do you need to justify your decision to them? Or indeed anyone? Do you secretly think they might be on to something? If they are not, stand firm.

However if you don’t like people saying unkind things about DC in state schools, you shouldn’t say unkind things about people in private schools. I know perfectly well
they can be kind, tolerant, accepting of anyone and just like you! I know it’s the parents you don’t like but don’t label
the DC too. What DC see around them at school doesn’t define them for life.

For what it’s worth, you can go through life having differing views to others. You don’t have to do what others do. I chose a different educational route for DD1. It was the best decision for her. I wasn’t making it for anyone else to approve of. You should do the same.,

What @TizerorFizz said.

Geville · 08/12/2022 13:48

wednesdaynamesep · 08/12/2022 12:45

@Geville - Take two on the reply I wanted to send. I'm sorry, it turned into an essay.

By complete coincidence, my three closest friends each have children who are ND - four children in total (I’ll refer to them as A, B, C and D). And I have another friend who is currently not talking to me because I gently suggested her DD might be ND and she didn’t appreciate the intervention at all (I’ll call this child E). And DS has another ND child in his class (F). This coincidence has made me think ND is way more common than most appreciate.

Against this backdrop, I have my own childhood, where I grew up with a child who had severe learning disabilities, communication problems, health issues and physical disabilities. We didn’t know him very well because he was sent to a ‘special school’ at a very young age, but he’d be back during school holidays. But I have a vivid memory of a group of us being told off in no uncertain terms, by my father, when he caught us crowding around this child and mimicking him, mocking him, and he was cowering terrified away from us. We were probably about 6 years old, but I do remember feeling incredible shame. Today though, I wonder whether that sense of shame was because I understood WHY what I’d done was wrong, or because I knew I’d disappointed my father.

My son, now a little older than I was at that time, is best friends with A. They sit together in class, play together at school, and DS goes on play dates to his house. The first play date did not go well. DS accidentally hit A when they were both throwing things at each other, and A spectacularly lost it. It really really scared DS, and he cried and was shaking and just wanted to go home because “everyone hates me and thinks I’m bad”. So one of the toughest steps I had to face up to- personally - was allowing DS to go on unaccompanied playdates to A’s house in case this happened again (A won’t come to our house). I also had this massive dilemma over whether I needed to sit DS down and explain how A sometimes did things differently in advance, so I could protect him. But A didn’t have a diagnosis at that stage, and I was fearful of making DS anticipate events / behaviour and make it an issue when it might not be - essentially putting ideas into his head.

In the end I said nothing to him, kept it light and casual, but I did ask A’s mum to phone me if I needed to come fetch DS. There have been other issues, but A’s parents are very alive to it, and they manage it in a way that DS appreciates. E.g. A is allowed time in his room away from everyone and they step in and play with DS until A is ready to re-join. I’ve never had to fetch him, and he always looks forward to play dates.

Then A got his diagnosis. DS came home full of chat about it, explaining it all to me as A had explained it to him, using unfiltered inappropriate child language. A told DS that his type of ND is different to F’s (the child in his class). According to DS, A’s is mainly about school work while F sometimes goes ‘cuckoo la-la mental’ - and yes, we did talk about the language. It’s not true that A’s is only about school work - he just loathes homework! - but I marvelled at how these two small boys simply reached an understanding and then moved on.

About F. F generates mutterings among parents at the gate because he can be violent, will throw chairs, run into the traffic if not supervised, and frequently has to be physically taken out of the class for his own and other children’s protection. Despite the mutterings, DS has only ever once, in all the years he has shared a class with F, come home with an issue, and that was after F managed to really hurt him and several other children on a very bad day. DS was justified in his fear and upset, and I was livid with the school for dropping the ball and not managing it all better. Lessons were learned. But I can’t help feeling that if my child isn’t regularly bringing home problems and isn’t distressed, then there isn’t actually an issue that exists outside the parents imagination and horror at behaviour that looks really bad on paper.

Recently DS has been talking about F in the context of playing at school, and I casually asked him how F was getting on. DS said “oh he doesn’t hit as much anymore mummy because he’s learning to use his words”. Again, I found myself quietly marvelling at his easy acceptance and ability to reach a simple understanding. He could just be parroting a teacher, but ‘using your words’ is a common refrain at the school for all the children so he could also have connected it all himself.

If these children were in the country I came from, their experiences would be so different. A would be viewed as the product of a mother who molly-coddled him and she would be judged harshly; B (dyslexic) would get absolutely nowhere at school; C would probably still be non-verbal and in a ‘special school’; D would be seen as an eccentric child genius, tolerated because he’s a genius; and E would be viewed exactly as she currently is in the UK: a child who can’t make friends because she’s nasty and mean. And F would be being beaten with a cane for his behaviour.

All of this is a complete revelation to me. I actually don’t know how to put words to it, but the way my children have no judgement, don’t gossip about these children, just get on with it and figure it out for themselves, feels almost miraculous to me. My children would never ever behave the way I did to that child I mentioned earlier. Icant even imagine them doing it. My acquired insights (which you might disagree with) are that I should always step back, resist trying to over-explain in case I derail things, and trust the parents of the ND children and even the school to keep things ticking along. I feel proud of the remarkable little people that my children are, but I don’t think much of it has to do with me: I think it’s their environment and social context, and I think I could even screw things up.

This is all about ND, because it started as a response to your comment, but race is a big thing for me too. My children simply don’t see racial differences. I have never ever had a question about different skin colours, or languages etc. Given how much race has featured in my life, this blows my mind and it feels extraordinary to me. Like a miracle really. It’s something I fiercely defend, but again my involvement is minimal, and I think it has more to do with their social environment.

And I would extend this to poverty as well. So far my children have been shielded from this in the UK, apart from visits to Africa where I’ve tried to explain it very carefully, but nervous I’ll mess up. I do think they’ll learn more from assimilating real experiences via their social environment, as they have done so far. This is one of the things I’m juggling, and I’m weighing it against the stuff I mentioned in my OP.

I don’t want secondary school to change what is working for my children. So far I’ve felt like I’ve stumbled accidentally into a good thing that has worked for my children. I don’t want their progress de-railed or set on a different course.

Well you are on of the very very few who has some compassion and understanding.

We never encountered anyone like you at the school my children attended.

And there is no one like you at the private school my DC attend either.

The only thing private school buys you is greater attention to detail and swiftly sorting out problems with good pastoral care.

The same level of deviousness exists it seems, wherever either of them go. There are some very damaged children out there and they hone in and find my kids and seem to enjoy bullying them. They must get something out of it as they don't stop. Unless they are caught. And then they find other underhand ways to carry it on.

These children exist at private school and state school. I have seen them in both settings.

If I could find a kind school, with genuinely kind people, I'd send my children there, in a heartbeat. Private or state. It wouldn't matter. It's just human decency that counts. But when you've got ASD, no one cares.

The fact that most, if not all, ASD adults have C-PTSD says it all. Rejection after rejection after rejection means it's impossible to function 'normally' or trust anyone.

wednesdaynamesep · 08/12/2022 13:55

@TizerorFizz I obviously hit a nerve, which is a good sign.

You've been inferring a lot of stuff that hasn't actually been said, and you've passed unjustified criticisms based on your inferences. Most have have just let it slide, I suspect because your defensiveness is both obvious and revealing.

I simply called you out on things you actually did say.

OP posts:
Riskofbeingsued · 08/12/2022 14:05

Sadly I think your experience is probably not because it's a state school but just because it's a good school.
My children had the exact same experience in terms of disability / ethnicity etc in their primary school. Two other local primary schools in the same town were utterly different (even to the point of suggesting "our" school to anyone who approached them to consider accepting their child with an EHCP). And some of the children who went to those schools really clearly have never experienced real diversity in all its forms.
My children go to a state secondary and I'm confident that the majority are still lovely and the overall experience of the school is accepting and inclusive (there are a few parents who clearly aren't like that) but I do also have friends whose children are at indies who report a similar experience (though I also know children from indies which sound unbelievably toxic and awful. I don't know any state schools like that but am in an area where most state schools are pretty good).
I think leadership of schools count for a lot (lots more than people think) and so any type of school can be inclusive and welcoming and any type can be toxic and demeaning - but if course state schools are more likely to have a wider range of "types" of people and therefore more opportunities to see good practice.

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