Removing charitable status for independent schools

[justanotherdaduser]

What do people here think of Labour policy of removing charitable status for private schools?

I am conflicted about it.

DD goes to a London independent and if in three years or so fees rise by 20%, it will not be easy for us.

But that's just our personal circumstances, and while I will be unhappy if fees go up by 20%, I can also see the point Labour is making -

that the school our DD goes to and hundreds of others like it are not really a charity. Most spend no more than 10% of their fee income on bursaries, if that. Vast majority of parents who send children there are comfortably above national average income. The charitable status is an anomaly and independent schools don't deserve tax breaks reserved for charities.

So was wondering how others feel about it.

(Applogies if this is not the right forum. I am mostly a lurker here and wasn't sure what's the best place to post this. Happy to move this somewhere more appropriate if required)

So what if they go back to the state sector? It's only a bad outcome if Labour's only educational policy is that they removed charitable status from schools. But that's not their only policy. Why assume that there won't be other improvements? Last time Labour was in power, they spent money on education, on school buildings, and on sure start. These schools are not charities.

This.
At least half the students on full ride bursaries.
And should benefit boys and girls equally (so e.g. Eton would either have to go mixed, or merge, as a charity, with a girls' school or two and divide resources fairly).

It’s about raising money- you raise taxes or cut services. What would you rather?

Completely agree that independent schools should provide more bursaries, scholarships, make their facilities available for state school use etc to maintain their charitable status.

I just depends on your view of what a charity it really. To me its just a type of business i suppose. The charity commission asks for certain criteria to met to be a charity, if you no longer allowed to be a charity by law, im not sure why you'd bother to meet those criteria outside of your core purpose of providing education to your target market, which might now beome business mission which might even prioritise profit over wider public benefit.

This. Independent schools are not charities. Other schools have to pay VAT, so should they. I can’t believe it has taken so long to get to this stage. Well, I can 🙄.

They haven't done their sums.

VAT would mean they can claim back up to 8 years worth... so all the capital costs, sports centres etc etc.

Plus additional cost of kids moving to the state sector.

For a lot of the big public schools it's nigh on impossible to remove charitable status - will take years of court cases and changing rafts of legislation through parliament.

There won't be extra money for state schools nor will it solve any inequalities.

Plenty of parents on here are advised to go state if they have a good local option and use the school fees money for tutoring, extra curricular, house deposits etc.

As proved in more enlightened education systems, making the rich send their children to state schools ensures there's motivation to improve state schools.

"So what if they go back to the state sector?"

The need to create about 7% more places, mainly at secondary level.

So that's £6200 each annual cost (and there's really no spare money in the education budget). And of course where are all the schools with spare places to accommodate them?

I wouldn't want to have a pupil in either sector whilst this was going through.

At least half the students on full ride bursaries.

It's would never work. Many people don't send their kids to private for the quality of education (it isn't better, on average) but because they are surrounded by other rich kids.and away from the plebs.

I think it's fine for the rich to buy their gated education as long as the state (and therefore the rest of us) benefits. It's nuts to allow a luxury service to be tax free.

Will new school sites be needed? Not easy. It’s not as if empty viable secondary locations are easy to get.

Their policies sound ill thought out. This and the curriculum. Dreading it

As you say most are no really charities. Those that are would presumably be able to keep their charitable status.

Feels like dragging everyone down to the bottom. Middle class parents struggling with fees will now be totally screwed over and many will have to opt out of private education. The pressure on state schools, which are already oversubscribed and not coping, will be horrendous. Who wins here - no-one.

Does that include the VAT they'll be able to claim back?

Who is they?

In terms of an extra 7% of places, there is capacity in a lot of areas at the younger end actually. A lot of unfant schools are being affectdd by falling birth rate. The bulge years have reached secondary now.

Independent special schools aren’t a tiny minority of independent schools in England. According to this government search there are 4968 independent schools of which 1135 are independent special schools. That’s over 20%.

There are parents who self fund independent special schools, especially where SpLD are the SEN.

Someone mentioned last Labour government but at least they didn’t do this drag everyone down method.

www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/labour-warned-by-sector-after-pledging-to-remove-private-schools-charitable-status.html

"In Spring 2018, Baines Cutler Solutions and KPMG were commissioned by the ISC to conduct a review of the potential impact of the introduction of 20% VAT on the independent schools’ sector.

The review suggested that axing VAT exemption on independent school fees would cost the government at least £416m in its fifth year once pupil displacement and VAT recovery is taken into account."

It doesn’t change the long waits for Tribunals, but parents can force the LA to stick to the 20 week statutory deadline, via judicial review if necessary.

If private schools wish to benefit from charity status, they should actually function as charities, allocating places on the basis of need, not of the parents’ ability to pay.

Exactly. If it's just about raising tax, put a percentage point in the top earners.

You'll get cash out of them without crippling the middle earning private school parents.

But it's not about raising taxes is it?

State schools pay full rate VAT. Private schools don't. They're subsidised by every other tax payer to enable them to offer cheaper fees.

Some of the posts on this thread 'ohmergerd our children will have to mingle with the povs! But we're MIDDLE CLASS!' are fucking hilarious.

This ^

My kids are state educated, i dont want them to lose a place at the nearby amazing secondary school to kids who live closer and left private education. There's nowhere nearby to build a new school and i dont want a different local school with more money ploughed into it - i want a tried and tested option.

Also as a parent of a child with SEN, i can confirm the council gives zero fucks about them, there will be no additional help for these children (as it happens my DS does have amazing provision in state but there are only 2 x places per year for the type of help he gets and no way to increase the students on DS' mini group)

This may be an unpopular opinion for some but it is my opinion. I would close them down. Education should be fair for all and excellent for all, not just for those who can pay for the privilege - it is a right all children should have.
I know the system is already unfair with catchment areas and parents who can afford to play the system and move/rent into an area etc but I just think having private schools makes things much much worse in terms of fairness.
if there was a referendum on this issue alone the overwhelming majority would say yes close them down and not just the charitable status issue.
overwhelming number of the judiciary, those in editorial positions, politicians, hospital consultants are privately educated…..we all want the very best for our children and I assume we all tell our kids all about the hard work and effort but private schools give 7% of the population an u fair advantage.