Talk me down re school choice

[Schoolunsure2]

Hello, sorry it's a long one but I'm really stuck.

2 DDs, yr5 and 3, both exceptionally bright, wanting to be doctors/ engineers etc. Eldest talented all rounder, v musical and sporty, youngest not so much but probably brighter with maths.

We're all v happy in our house and don't want to move. Moving to a better catchment area would cost more than private school x2 (in SE).

The local school (walkable)has a v caring reputation, good for SEN. But, having looked at GCSEs, only 30% get 5s in maths and English, and only 68% of those with high prior achievement get 5s, which I think is really disappointing.

Other school in catchment is a short bus ride away, much better for bright kids (especially girls) but has a bad rep for bullying.

There is a girls' grammar but that's 40 minutes away by bus, exceptional results but lots of stress and pressure.

I know it's sensible to just send them to the local school where they will be fine. But it will be so hard for them to get top grades there.

There are a few local private schools but it would be a real stretch.

There is a wildcard of a top public school half an hour drive away who have offered both scholarships but this would still cost us £20k a year and absorb any future pay rises/ inheritance and leave us really tight, plus kids would have no local friends.

Any advice greatly appreciated
Thanks

Thank you @goldfinchonthelawn I guess I just feel a bit embarrassed like I'm being snobby. Me and my husband both have v high IQs but went to rubbish schools where we did well compared to everyone else but not straight A*s as it was hard with violence and disruption in the classrooms. We can do a lot to support the kids but not enough to stretch every subject. Plus kids want to fit in don't they, standing out as nerdy isn't for everyone.

I'm starting to worry about mine too. I don't think my kids are stand out bright. They might be borderline for grammar and the school doesn't gear them up towards it.

1. Home town state school. Kids could walk or cycle. Its a big school so good facilities but has a poor reputation around pastoral care. I've heard tales of a lot of mucking about in classes. Only 52% get grade 5+ at gcse. Progress 8 is 0.12.

2. Neighbouring town state school. Bus or drive. Sounds a bit better for pastoral care. Less of a captive catchment, so school has to try harder to sell itself. Gcses 48%. Progress 8 is 0.2.

3. Grammar schools, there are 6 under an hour away, with a bus that trundles between them all. Gces more like 96% and progress 8's 0.6. However I know they're very pressured.

4. Private for 2 kids would be say £42k a year?! Some here are £10k per term. Others £7k.

@Reluctantadult what are the scores like for high prior achievement? Needs to be based on if it's right for your kids.

@Schoolunsure2 i can really see why you're finding it a difficult choice. In your shoes I would take my child to see the schools, maybe more than once. And visit another time during a normal school day, to see it in action.

I really value my mums thoughts on this as she worked in secondary schools for many years, doing things like timetabling, running exams and compiling progress 8's. Her opinion is simply to go with your gut.

Thanks, I hadn't delved into this detail, my kids have a couple of years left at primary. But it's already weighing on my mind, in case we need to move.

@Reluctantadult if you look on the government website for your school's results and select by pupil characteristic you can narrow it down.

Yeah I can see - this is our state school -

@Reluctantadult that looks pretty good to me. Ours is much lower.

I'm surprised actually! I had ruled this school out in my head, going off what people here say. But the other state school option is very similar on paper.

@Reluctantadult

Home town state school. Kids could walk or cycle. Its a big school so good facilities but has a poor reputation around pastoral care. I've heard tales of a lot of mucking about in classes. Only 52% get grade 5+ at gcse. Progress 8 is 0.12.

Average nationally is 50% getting grades 5+.
And looking at your breakdown, results look good

Grammar schools, there are 6 under an hour away, with a bus that trundles between them all. Gces more like 96% and progress 8's 0.6. However I know they're very pressured.

You can't compare the results of a grammar (they only select children who are likely to get good results) with those of a comprehensive.

I would go for the grammar. 40 minutes is nothing and they'll be chatting with their friends or even getting a head start on their homework if they're as diligent as you hope.

We also had the choice of top public school at a stretch or brilliant local grammar (equivalent) and we went for the grammar and are so glad we did. I would hate to have the financial pressure - it would stress me out and in fact the results are better from our state school anyway.

Grammar is easy choice for me from that list. Most grammar kids travel a bit. We only lived 3 miles away from DS's but the journey took an hour (20 mins walk to bus stop, 20 mins on bus and 15 mins walk other end plus a bit of egressing time). Loads of boys round here went there and many children travelled similar times.

But it doesn't matter what other bright kids do, it matters what yours do. No state school in the country can get away with not teaching to get the highest exam grades for those capable of getting them. Worse case scenario you get a tutor if they need grades bumping up. Seriously, my ds has been super lazy during his secondary school years, barely does homework unless teachers really get on his back but has got top grades in some assessments. Yes he's bright, but not extremely bright.

I would go for the grammar, I work in one and It will have high aspirations and a peer group that will push your daughters forward. But I wouldn’t go for it in a non-pressured way, I would tutor and go for it properly - unfortunately, practically everyone does so this will give them a fair chance. Failing that the public school could be an amazing opportunity, like a real game changer for them, if you could make the money work. I probably wouldn’t go for the non-prestigious private, just sounds like financial pressure with marginal reward.

Take the scholarship to the top private school, it’ll change their lives.

Go to the grammar or the private school. The local comp has awful grades. Don’t just think they will do well anyway

This is why I'm so torn, I agree with everyone's different points, but there's no clear cut answer. I think we need to prep for the grammar and keep going with the music and sports ( as that's what will be needed for the scholarships) and if neither are possible we go to the better performing state. If that's disastrous there are a couple of small nurturing private schools nearby as back up. I do feel like I'm justified in not choosing the local one though. I appreciate every comment so much, it's hard going through it first time!

If they are as bright as you say, the grammar school sounds most suited. If they are aiming for medicine(although really young to be focussed on that) they need straight 9s at GCSE.

You know, that isn't too bad. That's about what DC did to get to their excellent school in a nearby town to our village. It's very tiring when they are in yr 7 but they are so used to it by Yr 9. Better that than a nearby school that decreases their potential. That is such a depressing option.

@KatieBell12 that's a good point, I think they're bright but if they're way off the grammar schools then potentially unlikely to get super high grades so it's not as much of a worry. My main concern is letting them down and not giving them somewhere to realise their potential. Their career aspirations change daily as they're so young so I'm not focused on that, we know a lot of medics so I think that's the influence at the moment. But I agree that for certain subjects GCSEs matter a lot more than they did 20 years ago.

If you know that your nearest secondary school gets poor grades ect I would not send your kids their. I think when you visit a few school open days you see what they have to offer and you get a feel for the school and the teaching staff. Call into the school on an non open day and see what it like then. Ask parents that you know where do your kids go to school if they are in secondary school? Other parents feedback can be valuable re schools and they may say a school that you may not be aware of or might never have considered without more information.

I know some schools then get more children from disadvantaged areas which can mean they need more extra help, have behaviour issues and think disrupting every class is fun. Then the same kids are making fun of the kids that are working hard and want to get on calling them nerds. When you are at secondary school age you want to be the same as the rest of the crowd and don't want to appear different so you stop working as hard.

I know some parents then who just send their kids to the local school. They have very little interest in their kids reaching their potential in exam's or after school.

In your case I would try to get them into a grammar school because it should have kids like yours bright and interested in doing well. If your children are with other kids like this it encourages them to have the same aims.
I knew a couple who's daughter was bright and she became friends with this girl in secondary school. Her friend was not as good in school and had very little idea of what to do after school. The 2nd girls mother was delighted with the friendship as she could see her daughter getting more interested in and working harder in school. Today her daughter is doing a degree course with plenty of employment opportunities that she loves.
Her bright friend got into X degree due to exam results and loves it also.

@Schoolunsure2
I have looked at the GCSE results of two secondary modern schools near me. I’m in a grammar county so between 20-30% go to the grammars. They are not super selectives. These two secondary schools got 55% and 50% grade 5 maths and English. They both have around 1 form of high achievers each. That’s surprisingly low as some of our secondaries are higher than that. So, as you are aware, your local school has poor results. I cannot imagine Ofsted will think it’s great.

As for the grammar, it’s a no brainer. In country areas taking 40 mins to get to school isn’t unusual for a grammar or private school. I don’t think DC who are right for grammars feel pressurised either. If the pace is right for them, they flourish. If you over tutor then they might well flounder. So be really sure that DC are a good fit but they don’t appear to be a good fit for the local comp that’s way worse than my local secondary moderns.

if private is a stretch now, it won’t get easier. Fees go up. Usually by phase too. Be honest about your finances. You might get a bursary but they are not easy to get and are competitive as well as means tested. They really will give the most to the poorest snd the brightest.

if you think your DC might want high ranking careers, then go to high ranking schools. Medicine degrees are hugely competitive and there’s no easy ride. So if you don’t want pressure you might need to scale down aspiration a bit.

Personally, I think if your children are self-motivated and eager to learn, they will do just fine at any school. If, however, they are more keen to be popular and they are likely to submit to peer pressure, then I would be less inclined to send them to a less academic school.

If they are as exceptionally "bright" and talented as you say they will sail through GCSEs and A Levels. If they apply themselves and work they will be absolutely fine, the exams really aren't that difficult.

Thanks @TizerorFizz that's a really helpful comparison. I don't aspire to them having super high achieving careers I just want to give them a fair shot, it's up to them what they choose to do with it. I could get paid more if I moved sector but I choose not to as I don't want the pressure, I don't want to be hypocritical. I just want them with enough like minded kids to do well. I'd assumed the local school would just be fine, it's only looking at the results made my heart sink!