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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Are girls only that bad ?

99 replies

Onthedowns · 20/10/2022 19:09

We previously discounted girls only for the usual reasons. Socialisation. Bullying etc

However we have recently viewed one and DD loves it I was extremely impressed and felt very welcome. It's a great academically lots of sports etc. We prefer this over our local academy which is 10 minutes walk away

However we have had lots of negativity from family and other people.

It's making us doubt ourselves and certainly DD her decision.

OP posts:
Luredbyapomegranate · 20/10/2022 20:33

A good school is a good school.

Far too much is made of whether it’s single sex or co-Ed IMO. Although there is good evidence girls do academically better in single sex. She’ll be fine.

Your family on the other hand are being weird - is this more of a discomfort that you are opting out of the standard local option type of thing?

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/10/2022 20:38

Onthedowns · 20/10/2022 20:30

She does get on well with boys and has struggled on occasion with a bit of meanness from girls. I think she says boys just make her laugh doing silly things but think normal primary jinx

Which is very specific. Mine was mercilessly bullied by a group of boys and her whole female group has been warm, supportive and kind.

Depends on the group.

I think the 'girls are mean' trope is really unhealthy, particularly when shared with girls growing up. Internalised sexism.

Onthedowns · 20/10/2022 21:16

Luredbyapomegranate · 20/10/2022 20:33

A good school is a good school.

Far too much is made of whether it’s single sex or co-Ed IMO. Although there is good evidence girls do academically better in single sex. She’ll be fine.

Your family on the other hand are being weird - is this more of a discomfort that you are opting out of the standard local option type of thing?

I think it is definately more that she would be the only grandchild on both sides to go to all girls.

My MIL went to all girls but 60plus years ago and hated it and loved telling DD. SIL has pre concieved ideas of single sex schools, bullying because one of her friends left.

The opportunites and empowerment it appears to give to the girls there seems very good and we also get a great feeling on our open morning.

OP posts:
Alopeciabop · 20/10/2022 21:24

Two things to think about:

Firstly, if she has been to a school with boys and maybe had a brother then fine. As she knows what boys are about and how to behave with them, and how they behave.

Many kids at girls schools only have sisters (many, not all, before anyone jumps on me) because people usually want to send their kids to the same school, so if you have a boy you’re more likely to send them mixed - so therefore you really aren’t around many boys at all growing up if you go from primary age. To cut off half the world’s population like this (iyswim) can make it a hard adjustment when you’re at college and suddenly you’re expected to know how to interact with boys but you’ve never been around them in an every day capacity.

for me and many of my friends our first time meeting boys were when we were older teens getting our first taste of freedom. This meant our first encounter with boys was during that phase where you’re flirting and “who likes who”. Then when we went to college we didn’t know how to behave ‘normally’. We were used to being dressed up to meet guys out. Putting on a front and only letting them see us when we looked ‘perfect’ and done up. Not being next to them studying. It was uncomfortable. Now I have mainly male friends and a male partner and a son so I have clearly got over this but it did cause issues. For example lots of us felt uncomfortable eating in front of boys (?!) when we first came into the mixed world. We would awkwardly flirt and generally just feel foolish and not know how to speak to boys. Oh and don’t get me started about being expected to do sports in front of boys! That was the cringiest thing ever. Ever.

Secondly, if your daughter is good at what this particular school wants…that is to say if she will fit snugly into their mould….she will do great. If she bucks against authority in any way, if she is opinionated, if she isn’t academic but the school is, I would reconsider.

If they want to churn out rocket scientists and engineers but she loves drama and sport, then no. Don’t even bother. The kids that don’t do what they want wreck what they’re striving for as a business - remember their appearance is everything as they need people to part with their money, and they get them to do so by buying into the school. Parents won’t buy into the school if the school is underperforming- thus not leaving much room for individuality or experimentation (no matter what their marketing says)

Your child is exempt if she’s the “golden girl” type - academic and able to also produce good work in the arts/sports/music field - then definitely send her and she’ll get her artwork displayed in the school foyer every open day and every lead in the plays

Now for fair opportunity’s sake I’m happy to list the pros:

Good basic level of education - taught how to write constructive and persuasive essays. Which will do her well at uni/in her career.

Teaches, through example and peer pressure, the expectation of a high standard of work. Again good for career.

I want to say that it allows them to stay young for longer but I don’t know how this has changed. I’m not that old but I’m not young enough to have been at school with the TikTok brigade.

If she is suited to the school, the smaller class sizes allow more individual attention.
Although on the other hand, less friends to choose from (if you get selected as a bully’s target then where are you going to go when there’s hardly anybody else to pick from).

The other parents tend to all be pulling in the same direction - this would be my biggest positive. You’ll find the majority of them are similar in their desires and wishes for their children’s futures (this does not necessarily mean their values fyi). This is good because if there’s an issue (I.e. smoking or drinking or whatever) usually the parents are in agreement on whether to tackle it or not.

Either way, you’re already doing great by her by weighing it all up, and if she goes somewhere and doesn’t get on she can always switch schools.

Alopeciabop · 20/10/2022 21:28

Sorry also just got to say yes, girls CAN be that bad. Because the worst ones are sly af. They don’t punch you or punch you. They don’t show anyone what they’re doing. What a true mean girl will do is essentially coercive control and manipulation. They can take your self esteem entirely.

Of course, this can happen at a mixed school too. Guess it’s just that there are more girls and no boys to cut through that or allow a bullied girl other options for friends (as boys tend to be less willing to get involved in this sort of thing maybe?)

NaeQueen · 20/10/2022 21:33

Are you assuming it’s a private school @Alopeciabop? I don’t think the OP said it was and I was assuming it’s a single sex state.

Alopeciabop · 20/10/2022 21:36

@NaeQueen Oh maybe? I assumed it was private. If it’s single sex state then some of my points are probably not applicable. Just the last bit where I said girls can be that bad lol 🤦‍♀️

Onthedowns · 20/10/2022 21:39

Alopeciabop · 20/10/2022 21:36

@NaeQueen Oh maybe? I assumed it was private. If it’s single sex state then some of my points are probably not applicable. Just the last bit where I said girls can be that bad lol 🤦‍♀️

Hi sorry thank you. All points appreciated. It is not private it is state run albeit strong Co of E influence. We have a 6 year old son and she has been in mixed primary

OP posts:
reluctantbrit · 20/10/2022 21:39

We come from a country where single sex schools are virtually unknown, so the idea of sending DD to one (basically only choice) didn't really sit well with us.

DD is now in Y11 and I think it is a good school for her. The attitude is very much "girls can do everything", "there is no limit to what you can achieve" and the subjects are very broad, lots of STEM with equally lots of arts and humanities.

She is confident, doesn't think girls have to behave in a certain way to "attract" males, gives as good as she gets.

But - socialising with boys is very important to us and it was a main reason for us to send her to Scouts and now Explorers. She takes not sh*t from the boys, is not impressed with some of the boys's attitude and happily raises her opinion regarding them.

Also, she will go to a co-ed Sixth Form, again, it's important to learn and to know how to deal with boys.

As long as she is not in a girls-only bubble and the school is ensuring the girls are not pushed into traditional female roles, a single sex can be good for them.

Fairislefandango · 20/10/2022 21:42

I've taught in many schools. The two girls' schools I've worked in had by far the nicest environments and best behaviour. Bullying did happen, but less than in tye boys' and mixed schools I've worked in. I went to an all girls' school myself too, and it was great.

mewkins · 20/10/2022 21:43

But the OP's daughter will always be at school with girls, either at a mixed or single sex.

My dd and all of her friends do a number of outside school activities and mix with boys. The majority of her friends have brothers (in a small town with both a boys and girls school so plenty send their kids to different schools) and all have previously been to primary with boys and I don't know any state single sex primaries. I'm not saying you didn't struggle but I think lots of teens do anyway.

BTW I have a son too and some of the boys in his class can be very sneaky too. I don't think we need to go down that route of labelling girls as bitchy and sly.

mondaytosunday · 20/10/2022 21:47

Mine went to a mixed school until sixth form then asked to go to an all girls school. It's academically rigorous and she said while there are some girls she doesn't really like, there are no cliques or bullying that she's seen. She's thriving and lack of boys means they can get on with the work.

DelurkingAJ · 20/10/2022 21:50

Another woman who is so happy that she was at an all girls school 11-16. I thrived and as a ‘late blossoming’ girl I would have been miserable co-ed (too clever, not pretty in the face but a stunning figure (then, sigh), already being ‘felt up’ at 10 in my prep school by 12 year old boys). No problem dealing with boys (despite negligible exposure) when I went to a boys school (40 girls to 160 boys in my year) for sixth form.

AriettyHomily · 20/10/2022 21:52

Loved my all girls school, DTs are loving theirs, I wouldn't consider a mixed sex to y11.

WayDownInTheHole · 20/10/2022 22:57

I've taught in both. I am convinced all girls is a far better environment for the vast majority of girls.

Wotcha23 · 20/10/2022 23:04

I wish mine had been able to go to a school for girls only. So much bitchiness from boys towards them, constantly belittling them and their appearance. They had the odd bit of drama and falling out with other girls, but not the same deliberate meanness.

diar · 21/10/2022 06:58

Depends on your daughter, I think. I went to all girls'and hated it - i've never enjoyed being in all female environment, didn't then, don't now. But if your daughter's ok with that, then they're often good schools from a behaviour and academic point of view.

lollipoprainbow · 21/10/2022 07:15

I've put my dd down for our local girls school as I went there and when we looked round I was so impressed with it. I wonder if it's the same school OP looking at your username.

Onthedowns · 21/10/2022 07:16

lollipoprainbow · 21/10/2022 07:15

I've put my dd down for our local girls school as I went there and when we looked round I was so impressed with it. I wonder if it's the same school OP looking at your username.

Possible begins with the D?

OP posts:
lollipoprainbow · 21/10/2022 07:18

@Onthedowns yup !

TweetnDour · 21/10/2022 07:20

I went to an all girls school. There was a lot of bullying and competitiveness over looks and grades. I didn't know how to be around boys in a non romantic context until I was mid twenties. I'm convinced this is because I was so lacking in experience with studying and being just friends with boys. They were this stigmatised mysterious thing. I heard of men who went to all boys say the same thing about women and relationships.

Onthedowns · 21/10/2022 07:25

lollipoprainbow · 21/10/2022 07:18

@Onthedowns yup !

We will have a train journey also. I was slighty against to start but once visiting it has very much changed my mind. DD loved it but is very much getting a lot of negativity from family, a lot of her friends I think are wishing to go but are from backgrounds with sisters.

Obviously as we are out of catchment we run the risk of not getting in anyway !

OP posts:
Dynamicdinosaur · 21/10/2022 07:25

I’m vehemently against single sex education despite going to a girls school and enjoying it,

from my experience having very simple organic friendships with boys has been massively helpful to my DD. It has provided a good balance from the intense girl relationships which exist in all schools and there have been absolutely no question of girls not achieving as much as the boys, the girls match the boys and often exceed them in every way.

it may depend on the demographics of the school but my experience of a high achieving comprehensive and a coed private secondary bear fruit to this. I actually didn’t even sit my daighter for single sex schools at 11 such is my feeling on this

Onthedowns · 21/10/2022 07:27

TweetnDour · 21/10/2022 07:20

I went to an all girls school. There was a lot of bullying and competitiveness over looks and grades. I didn't know how to be around boys in a non romantic context until I was mid twenties. I'm convinced this is because I was so lacking in experience with studying and being just friends with boys. They were this stigmatised mysterious thing. I heard of men who went to all boys say the same thing about women and relationships.

Well this is a concern I think more for DH. However she is surrounded by boys within family and would see friends out of school. I know some girls there and they haven't come out socially awkward with boys it's very difficult

OP posts:
Dynamicdinosaur · 21/10/2022 07:31

It’s not about boys as family, I have boys too, it’s about them being a balance in school and the intensity and competitive nature of girls relationships . I’m in the minority here but more I see of the outcomes of co-Ed and single sex the more convinced I am that I don’t like girls schools

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