2023 Eleven Plus support thread

[elevenduck]

I thought it might be useful for parents of 2023 children taking the 11+ test next school year to have a space to talk everything 11+ - tips on managing stress, approaches to the different papers, ways of relaxing etc.

Let's try and keep it positive and supportive!

The exam is opt-out in Bucks, so unless you actively withdraw your child then they will sit it, if they are at a state school.

In the area of Bucks we are in, usually around 10% pass - which is only 3 kids per class of 30. Whilst I'd put DD in the top 3 within her class on a good day, who's to say exam day is going to be a good day? The pass rate is 30% across all of Bucks, but our area is a bit more deprived and doesn't encompass the leafy village schools and of course private school candidates aiming to get a free grammar school secondary experience.

The whole thing is a lot more stressful than I expected it to be... and we have DD7 to worry about in a couple of years' time! Do you have others in the pipeline, so to speak?

We're prepping for Bexley which have just announced the format for the papers, as they're switching provider this year (CEM to GL). Not a huge shift from previous years.

We've been doing work with DS at home since about November. Just 30 mins most days although ramping it up a bit now. We've been working through CGap books and have started practice papers.

He's flying at maths and NVP but his spelling is letting him down a bit and some inference too. I think he'll be ok overall.

In Bexley the top 180 scorers pick whatever school they want. After that it's a case of all children who reach the 'selective' level can just apply and it's usual criteria (looked after, siblings, distance). We're solid for two of them on distance but our nearest one is very popular so we're right at the limit in distance.

See how it goes!

My son is studying for a super selective state school where only a handful of children get in each year for academic achievement .

We’re tutoring once a week and AtomLearning daily. His verbal reasoning and English are fine. Maths not so great. He’s struggling with word questions. The algebra question on the sample paper even the teacher didn’t understand. Nor my partner who took pure maths as an A-level and considered himself excellent at algebra! So that’s a worry.

Super selectives are a real challenge to get into from what I've heard. We were told not to worry too much about some of the most testing questions on some of the papers as the papers cover children who might be aiming for (say) a scholarship at a super-academic independent school.

However, am I right in saying that super selectives can have less impact on the surrounding schools, as they only take a handful of children out of the system, so the comprehensives can still be OK?

Where we are, literally the top 30% of kids are stripped out of the system, so the secondary moderns are not comprehensive in any sense at all, and tend to do badly. It feels like an "all your eggs in one basket" situation.

It's so interesting to hear all about the different systems around the country.
Our two local comprehensives get dreadful results and I really don't want dd to go to either but she'll have no choice if we don't go down the grammar route.

We are in East London/border of Essex and the Grammar in our catchment has now switched from CEM to GL. DD has been working through sample papers (Examberry) and Atom. NVR has been…challenging especially as I’ve honestly struggled to help her with a lot of the questions! She seems to be gaining in confidence though. Her primary school doesn’t teach this at all.

One thing I’m not clear on..since there are 4 subjects, does the exam comprise of one 50 minute session with questions on 4 areas or is it 4 x 50 mins?! Advice online suggests the format and number of questions is a decision the school or LA make so I asked the LA Admissions team but haven’t heard back.

Tbh Grammar schools were never really on my radar as we previously lived in a deprived part of London which had several Outstanding secondary schools. We’ve now moved to a more affluent area but the (state) schools are not as good.

Another one in Bexley here. @Testpreo can I ask what the schools were that had these worrying issues?

No idea whether DS will pass Bexley and whether to attempt Kent. Have had once a week online group tuition since October but don't think that was the right choice. I don't think they adapt to how students are doing, they have their plan and just go through that. It would probably be better to take him through the books myself.

We used to live in Hainault so probably close to you! I'm afraid we moved 7 years ago so I can't be any help on the format of the exam. If you Google eleven plus forum there are some helpful people there who know EVERYTHING!

Ironically we moved to Bucks for a more extensive grammar school system (in part), which retrospectively may not have been the smartest decision...

Thanks, will Google those forums. Can I ask what the issue is in Bucks? Just curious as we were originally looking at moving to Bucks or Bedfordshire as DP was quite keen to leave London.

@elevenduck I've looked at atom learning are you committed for any longer than a month at a time? I need something that my DC can do independently when they are at their dads.

11plusmum No its a month at a time. Also if you do one of the more expensive subscriptions then swap to a cheaper one, then you kind of get the credit left over from the more expensive one transferred over to the cheaper one, if that makes sense. So in theory could do the one which gives you access to papers for just a few days then switch to a cheaper subscription.

@Eastie77Returns In retrospect I'd probably move to the Bucks border - eg Tring which is close enough to access the Aylesbury grammars on distance but has the backup of a decent comprehensive system as most kids from Tring don't attempt the out of county grammar process.

Bucks secondary schools are stripped of a huge percentage of the brightest kids with the most aspirational families and what's left behind is a less able cohort and increased concentration of learning / behaviour difficulties and poverty. It's almost impossible for schools to drive excellent results under these circumstances- or perhaps "excellent results" is measured via absence rates and exclusion rates.

Hello everyone, I am really stressed out about the 11+. It's in my thoughts, at night I can't sleep etc because of my son. He is very capable if pushed but he simply does not want to do the work I mean extra work, he has one hour of tutoring of English a week and some homework that's it. School don't give any homework generally. He fights and cries everytime I try and ask him to do any work. I have always wondered if he is on the spectrum but have delayed assessing him due this 11+ anyway should I bother continuing as I've said he's bright but only if pushed will he succeed. Some of these comprehension questions and maths is too much and too hard for my child. I know the answer you might say is leave it but after all this time of tutoring and booking mocks and all we need to push through it? My other son is more academic and will possibly want to do past papers and the like and he is more inclined that way but the one who's going to sit this September he just wants to play....it's hard because my husband and I both went to grammars long time ago so I think because our parents pushed us it's the way to go. The competition is very tough in our area we have hardly any grammars so makes things worse. Also they have intensive courses this summer is it worth the money?

@User1234567891011121314 you may be able to get your son in to a grammar but then he may struggle without the tuition / additional support once he is there. It happens a lot to children whose parents are desperate to get them into grammar schools. Ask yourself why it's stressing you to this degree

@User1234567891011121314 Demand avoidance is an autistic trait, so if you’ve noticed other traits in your child, it’s worth doing something about it. The transition to secondary school is often the time at which autistic kids (diagnosed and undiagnosed) suddenly stop being able to cope.

Demand avoidance is actually one of the reasons why I decided against having my daughter sit the 11+. Then I started hearing bad feedback about our local comp from parents with children there and rapidly changed my mind. It was quite late too, last April.

I found that tutoring helped because she behaved so much better for a tutor - with us she’d either be miserable and sullen or cry. I had a bit of a breakdown over the summer holidays when I asked her to do a bit of maths revision and instead she rushed through her workbook, made a ton of sloppy mistakes and claimed she didn’t know the most basic things.

Long story short, she got into a grammar school
and all the angst (her) and sleepless nights (me) was forgotten.

One way to think of it with your son is that he can sit the exam with no expectations and see how he does. Because if he doesn’t sit the exam he has zero chance. Equally I don’t think it’s right to intensively tutor a child: you want them to get a place on merit and fundamentally be academic enough to cope with the pace of teaching at a grammar.

Thanks!!

It's quite normal though for a DC to get to an age where they don't accept tutoring from a parent and it leads to conflict and tension. It's also quite normal for this age of children to throw a tantrum because they don't want to do any extra schoolwork for something that they don't want to do and don't have to, except for parents wanting them to do it and would rather watch TV, go outside, be on devices because they are not mature enough to see what you see or wish for their future.

@11plusmum2023 thank you so much for your words. You have hit the nail of the head regarding he's not mature enough to understand why we are doing all this at this stage . My DH is undermining his confidence which doesn't help but he did say to me when will DS realise he needs to work hard for his future?
@Jellycats4life thank you not heard of demand avoidance so will look it up but great your girl got into grammar but I do feel if he does get there he will then be under confident and need more tutoring which is what happened to me and I do not want that for my child.

User1234567891011121314 I sympathise as my son is demand avoidant and it was also very painful to get him to prepare. He did pass without ever doing more than 70 minutes a week preparation (but over 2 years)- so maybe just ease off a bit give him a break and then try and get him to do atom learning over summer holidays- bribery works wonders. I don't think there is any need for mocks.

It's almost impossible for schools to drive excellent results under these circumstances- or perhaps "excellent results" is measured via absence rates and exclusion rates.

I think that's unduly negative. DD2 went to a pretty poor Secondary Modern (and yes, you are right, that's what they are even if they no longer use that terminology). All of her friendship group of 8 went to university, and 3, including DD2, have a Masters. In her case, a truly spectacular one if you'll forgive a brief 'proud mum' moment!

It probably takes a bit more focus and determination than it does at a grammar school – I had a DS at grammar at the same time – but it definitely can be done.

Focus and determination definitely helps. I attended secondary school in a London borough that had amongst the worst GCSE results in the entire country at the time. Roughly 25% of kids managed 5 good grades or more at my school (lots of truancy, low level violence). However the school also had amazingly dedicated teachers who supported the children who were willing to buckle down and some of my year group went to top universities and studied Law, Medicine, Dentistry etc. I went to Uni although wasn’t nearly clever enough for those kinds of subjects😅

The main negative was that the teachers really only bothered with those of us who showed promise and that was mainly because we had the advantage of stable family support and non-chaotic home situations, not because we were inherently better. The rest were left to flounder and I look back and think it was such a waste of potential.

Can I ask how he’s managed the pace of teaching at grammar, plus homework? Wondering how my demand avoidant kid is going to fare. Usually she saves the demand avoidance for home, so I’m worried about the homework…

You are quite right. I wasn't trying to be negative about the schools - more sympathising with them as it's such a hard place to start from. I meant it's almost impossible to drive excellent results as an entire school - not that individual children are unable to succeed.

I'm really glad to hear your DD's success story - gives me hope that my quiet, industrious DD will be OK if she doesn't manage to qualify for grammar.

I would say it is only worth it if your dc is willing. A dc has to be willing in order to succeed I think. Have you sat down and explained to your dc the reasons for wanting him to go to grammer school? Have you explained where he would go otherwise? Once my dd realised private secondary was an option, she was highly motivated, looking at the school websites and willing to prep. Ds is the same.

Jellycats4life I don't know yet, he starts in September, I do admit that is a real concern. I have just been really put off schools which don't cater for brighter children, as he has had that experience being at a really deprived primary school (eg children not allowed to read higher than a very basic book band each year) and he has been really bored and put off learning. In my mind if it doesn't work out we will move to a comprehensive area- but probably not being realistic.