SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023

[EmotiveBubblez]

i myself have been looking for this thread and have been unsuccessful. Saw a couple people mention it over the past day or so on the 2022 one.

so here we go, albeit a bit late.

has everyone visited all the schools on their lists?

how many schools are everyone applying to?

what schools are you applying to?

how is the preparation going?

i know some exams have taken place, how did they go?

wishing all the whirls good luck with preparation and exams, hope we all find the right schools for our daughters.

Final point is that of course the state heads do write a reference for the independent school applications. I have in fact seen our reference that has been sent to the schools.

They just don't engage in advocacy after the application if the child doesn't do 'as well as they should' in the test.

I cannot agree more with you, including on the point about teaching staff / head teachers in state schools, of which I also happen to know a few.

Did anyone notice how Francis Holland, Sloane Square climbed up the rankings this year and is now nationally amongst the top 20 schools? Surbiton high is on the same path. I am sure they didn’t select the brightest DDs a few years back to produce such stellar GCSE & A level results. Further proves to me that a “back-up/safe school” of today can quickly become a top ranked school in a couple of years. Or Vice Versa.

On a similar note, I find it so funny when a school makes a 10-11 year old go through 2-3 stages of all kinds of tests to select the smartest child and then claims “oh, we produce the best results!” Like : duuh, the kids they choose are likely to do well in any school with sufficient resources.

@Schoolapplicationjoy Well, actually @Mamabear12 said "I just hope the head is able to write a reference letter….." which does rather imply that perhaps they might not be capable of doing so.

How is it not the job of a state head to write a reference for a pupil who wants to go to selective indie? Has your Head refused? If so, I suggest you contact the school governors to complain.

Like @QuiteAJourney said earlier, there is no need for this thread to descend into a gripe about private school kids having more advantages at 11+ than state school kids.

At our state primary the Head on principle did not have anything to do with selective school admissions. No advice. No reference. Certainly no chats with the secondary schools involved. Not even any advice on whether to apply for Tiffin, let alone independent selective schools.

It all worked out fine. I suspect the independent secondaries have a pretty good sense of their different feeder schools and make their judgements accordingly.

No they haven’t refused. But, as a governor , I’m well aware of the pressure state school headteachers are under. Getting their year 6’s into selective indies (or grammars) is not part of their job.

Prep headteachers are judged on their leavers destinations. They may certainly say they do more for their children with regard to Admissions. However how much actual influence they have is questionable.

Name change fail! Ah well

Agree with you that we do not know how a school will evolve over time.

But I am really sceptical about rankings of this type, especially when data is for 1 year only (and a pretty anomalous year), double weight for A levels (when there is quite a lot of movement for sixth form) and no consideration of a range of things (pastoral, extra-curricular, ethos,... ) that I think matter for quite a lot of parents.

For instance, my understanding is that FHSS failed a recent ISI inspection on safeguarding processes, although the issue seems to have been resolved (but that might be an issue that parents might consider, and that is not included in the ranking). As for SHS, I do not know whether I would consider it as 'back up' - I know girls that have it as preferred option (not least on account of its sport prowess and track record) and has been, for year, getting quite good results ... with the fact that it is not in central London and quite a large school being a factor in why it has traditionally been considered as easier to get into than other schools with a similar academic track record.

@QuiteAJourney very good points. Thanks

Surbiton High has made entry to the secondary school selective by not taking all the girls from the prep (stopping automatic entry) and making the prep more selective at the same time, it takes a few years for changes to come through but they are beginning to be seen.
The change this year is they will have to change their offer ratio to reduce the size of the incoming year 7 so there will be a reduced number of offers in Feb 2023 which has a knock on effect with other schools. Last year they used their normal ratio but had more acceptances than anticipated.

@sailingsunshine do you know if SHS plans to have 7 forms as they usually do or will they have a smaller year to "compensate" for the larger intake this year?

I think the current year 7 is 9 classes, it wasn't planned and the estate can't support that number again, ie not enough room to eat lunch in the lunch break etc so I'm sure they will plan carefully to only have 7 classes this year.

That is useful to know... I suppose that they will be be careful with offers but they may end up dipping into waiting list (especially given that people seem to have applied to more schools than usual), although their steady climb up the rankings might lead more people to view it as a favourite.

In case it's of use / interest, someone on the Parent Power thread really kindly posted the Sunday Times school rankings with the various A Level grades separated out.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4692885-parent-power-2023?page=3&reply=122195336

I'm very much of the opinion that results should be a tiny part of the decision as regards senior schools (because the differences are marginal) but it's interesting to see results nonetheless!

@LondonMum20222 thanks for sharing. Like you, I am rather sceptical about league tables of this type.

I would be more interested at value-added league tables but I have not located a single comprehensive source or, for the matter, tables that included the views / feedback of parents and past students!

@QuiteAJourney I think I've seen about 8 or 9 schools now and only one has mentioned added value. Do you think none of the others mention it because it's just not there (ie they take in clever kids at 11, and those kids go on to get predictable exam results)?

I'm really interested in the style of teaching at a school, and the breadth, depth, range of what's on offer. But again, a surprising number of schools don't talk about this much at open days beyond platitudes like "we go well beyond the curriculum and our girls have huge opportunities to expand their interests" etc etc. Disarmingly few Heads' speeches talk about class sizes or smaller group work or independent work etc - all the things I'd really like to hear about to get a better measure of the day-to-day reality of learning at the school, and whether it would suit DD.

@LondonMum20222 , the issue with the whole London day school selection process is the schools choose you and bright dc will get roughly the same results whether they go to a local secondary state or a top 10 private school - hence many who move in and out of the state primary / private secondary system see their dc all go to the same uni's with the same a level grades etc. The private schools don't need to impart much info even once you are a parent. This is also why parents often choose a school based on journey time and sports offered - hockey v lacrosse etc.
I think there is more info and a more detailed decision making process when dealing with boarding schools as they have more to "sell" to fill the places.

Does anyone exactly how many external places SHS will have for 2023 compared to the number taken through to the 2nd round and how many offers would they need to do?

Interestingly the only school we have applied to that explicitly referred to value added is one that also does boarding (Woldingham).

Just an FYI to everyone on this thread: it's about 50 posts away from reaching the max (1000 posts) so someone might want to start a Part 2 soon. (We're not 11+ing until next year so I don't want to hijack it this year!)

@LondonMum20222 I was thinking the same this morning :)
Tagging @EmotiveBubblez as she was the opening poster in case that she wants to do the honours.
Also, that could be opportunity to rename the thread as SW London Private & Grammar - 2023 entry. That way we can formalise that the thread refers to both boys and girls.

In years gone by SHS would offer 145 - 150 places approx - with 6 form entry. There are usually 23/24/25 girls in each class.

If they are overweight from last year, I'd imagine they'd go back to that level - but of course no crystal ball here at home. If only :)

Have you tried the Good Schools Guide? Does try to quote current parents.

And I’ve quoted the wrong post - meant to reply to the post about not finding a source that includes parental views rather than just exams….

@Trickleg Good Schools guide does selective quotes of parents. I think that it would be useful to have some 'survey type' information on what students and parents think after having experienced the school.