SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023

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i myself have been looking for this thread and have been unsuccessful. Saw a couple people mention it over the past day or so on the 2022 one.

so here we go, albeit a bit late.

has everyone visited all the schools on their lists?

how many schools are everyone applying to?

what schools are you applying to?

how is the preparation going?

i know some exams have taken place, how did they go?

wishing all the whirls good luck with preparation and exams, hope we all find the right schools for our daughters.

@QuiteAJourney it's local to us too and the journey on Saturday was a breeze. Clearly too good to be true.

Just coming up for air after a busy couple of weeks. Not even half way through, it is a proper marathon.
DS has a general interview at KGS, which we are delighted about. Slightly concerned that DS was so overjoyed by the KGS news, that he was a bit too relaxed for the ISEB test and Ibstock first round. I think he got a bit of shock, as he isn't a fan of computer tests.
Emanuel and Kings College coming up this week.
Good luck all. Stay strong!

Really interesting what you say as I think we are in the same place - not sure if because DD relaxed after KGS result or just because she genuinely does not like computer tests.
Hopefully she will be in form at Emanuel.

Anyone know how many are sitting Emanuel this year? Is anyone NOT sitting Emanuel? Can't believe how the popularity of that school has gone from strength to strength in the last few years. I mean I can as when I visited it was lovely - just wish it was as easy to get into as it was a while back. Everything feels so competitive now. A no from KGS means we are biting nails and feeling a bit despondent. I wish the news from KGS could have come out after Christmas - in January. A no so early on was quite a knock-back.

@Geville not sure about numbers but it would not surprise me if we are talking 1000-1200. We have been told by parents that have previously applied that the numbers in each sitting are huge.

Yes I'm sure you're right on the high side like over 1000+, certainly even 1200 sounds with the realm of possibilities too. Our only hope is that it throws out odd results and DS might be one of the lucky ones. Not applying to Kings or Hampton because he wouldn't pass, we know that - but we might get the Willie Wonka Golden Ticket to Emanuel instead!

Re Emanuel - I agree the numbers will be very high. DD applied a few years back and I was taken aback at just how busy it was on exam day. I think the application numbers have grown since then as well.
For what it's worth, DD thought the exam went really badly, but got on the waiting list for Emanuel.
It is definitely worth a shot, but I have tried to manage DS's expectations this time around and prepared him for the fact it will very busy.

@Geville my DS isn't sitting Emmanuel. But maybe he should...what's so great about it? 😁

When DD sat Emanuel a few years ago they were still capping the number at around 600 ish so that's why it seems like loads more apply then they used to. Do they still interview everyone?
It's Coed and easily accessible via Clapham junction hence the numbers I think.
I remember the exam day as being very chaotic! LU has upwards of 1300 applying every year - I think it reflects increasing popularity of Coeds.

We're doing Emanuel. Looked at it for DS a number of years back but didn't apply. Back then it was much more straightforward to rely on a place. Numbers for LU this year are probably through the roof. I don't know of many not applying there either. Anyone know how competitive it is in comparison to KGS, Whitgift, Ibstock and Dulwich?

My dd is applying to Emanuel, but not LU. We decided to just do 4 schools...but now I am wondering if we should have applied to LU! She is applying to Godolphin though. I hear Emanuel has gotten a lot more difficult to get into. It will be the first written test for my dd.

@Geville my son is not sitting Emanuel. We did go to see it and I really liked it but my dh didn't think the commuter train to school would really suit my son. He's probably right but it was lovely.

I think the sheer number is just a London mentality, that is, people applying more schools per student. Don't be deterred as I was advised. In my son's prep school, most are applying to 6-8 schools (some more) (although always said 4-5 is enough). These are numbers much higher than years ago as some parents with older kids told me. Don't know about Emanuel, but for KGS and Hampton, the schools many in our prep applied to, saw numbers increasing year by year, but our HM told us the difficulty in getting in has not increased, just people applying more and more schools, and there is no need to apply that many.

We are sure he has a point as you just have that many students reaching year 6 every year, and if there is a school getting so much more popular (not in application number but in acceptance ratio), which school is to lose out?

But still, most applied to more than the number he suggested!

@Justarrivedlondon but there is not a constant number reaching Y6 in each year. The group currently in Y6 represents the highest birthrate year in London this century, and there is real pressure on independent day places - especially for boys, for whom there have always been fewer such places due to the historic preference for boys to board, and also the greater propensity for boys’ schools to go co-ed while most girls’ schools remain single-sex. Despite the addition of some (relatively) newer schools, e.g. the Kew House group, there is genuinely a squeeze on places.

Emanuel has done a brilliant job of reinventing itself from an unfancied boys’ school to a highly-desirable co-ed independent day school with extensive gounds on site, of which there aren’t enough in London to meet demand. Highgate made the same transition a few years ahead of Emanuel and hasn’t looked back, with demand far outstripping the places available.

Emanuel did keep on interviewing all candidates ahead of the exams until last year, but has succumbed to reality this year as it just isn’t feasible any more. They will now follow the usual pattern of ranking candidates from the exam before selecting for interview.

Certainly parents are entering their DC for more schools than used to be the norm, but they are not wrong to perceive that genuine competition for places will be particularly fierce this year.

I think that there are a number of factors driving numbers up: 2012 was the highest year for births in London. Plus (the different provision of private and state during) lockdown might have led some people to consider private in a way that had not happened before. Plus lockdown, when many schools used the ISEB, has led to more applications from parents [their reference point has changed]. In the case of co-ed, the demand seems to have increased further.
What I am not sure about is the impact of another couple of factors that might have moderated that increase: quite a few families moving out of London during lockdown and the economic situation (on the second, that might have an impact also on the number of people that would accept Tiffin or other grammar schools over private secondary).
Overall, I think that the competition is fierce and seems to be worse that last year - parents seek to 'manage' it by increasing the number of applications, which adds to the problem.

Yes supposing someone holds 6 or 7 offers this year instead of 3 or 4 which has been more of the norm in years gone by. I wonder what happens then? Or will that even be the case?

PP is right that the birth bulge is still in full force so there is a larger number of children overall.

It does feel more competitive this year. We did 11+ a few years ago and even for a state school music place we safely achieved last time around, the competition had risen vastly by comparison and we were not successful this time around.

Good luck everyone tomorrow for Emanuel.

As for why we liked it, it’s on a train line so easy and frequent transport. Grounds were lovely. Staff were lovely. The children that showed us around were very down to earth and normal. The head seemed to genuinely care and talked a lot about being kind. It ticked all our boxes.

Does anyone know what happens if you were shortlisted for a scholarship (arts) before the exam (i.e. got through 1st round process) but may not have done so well in the exam (which was after the 1st round scholarship test)? Do you just get cut from the scholarship process or would they still let your child go to 2nd round?

Interesting. Is there a link to the stats showing this? Or the pattern of # boys vs girls? I would be interested to read if you can share?

I agree that there seems to be more options on offer for girls than for boys once you factor co-ed. (especially since mid 90s when some like Epsom and St John's have gone co-ed). Plus I think that the demand is different too - more girls preferring girls only than boys preferring boys only. No hard data just observational.

@Sage2025 which stats are you interested in? The nationwide baby boom circa 2012 is well-documented - here’s the Economist’s illustration of the consequential peak of 18 year olds in 2030: www.economist.com/britain/2021/08/19/the-number-of-young-adults-in-britain-is-about-to-rise-sharply

More locally you will find that London boroughs reflect the same population peak in their planning for state school places. My own borough (Camden) has its education-demand planning online, very transparently, and I am sure other boroughs will do the same work.

Regarding independent school places, the ISC is a good place for stats, and their most recent stats show demand for independent places continuing to grow.

Regarding girls v boys - the GDST schools have long offered (between them) a large number of girls-only places in London. Then there are the Hammersmith schools and the Francis Holland schools and smaller “dame schools” like St Margaret’s in Hampstead - between them there is the whole range of highly selective to gently selective to non-selective. What were previously non- or less selective boys’ schools, on the other hand, have in several cases boosted their fortunes and standards by going co-ed: see e.g. Highgate, LU, Emanuel. This has increased the choice for girls, but diminished places for boys.

As an independent school governor I see a lot of stats, but as a parent of an older girl and a younger boy in London I experience what hordes of other parents experience: it’s a tough process, and this is a tough year.

It depends how strong the scholarship application was and how weak the exam performance was. It’s a case by case basis. But yes there would be a cut off point if exam performance just not good enough, even with exceptional ability elsewhere. They have to protect their 9s and A stars above all else!

Just learned from a friend whose DC sat Ibstock on Wednesday that they have not been told when they will hear re: round 2. Wondering now if that lack of commitment re: timing might mean thar we might not hear from them this week after all or whether they would release at different times.

Interesting share. Do you know if the birth bulge was replicated across Europe? Sorry, bit off topic but I’m curious to know now. I’ll have to go digging. Was it a phenomenon across the western world? Cheap money, low rates, a perpetual bull market, few wars. Did that lull many of us into having more children than usual?

Back to schools, yes, as the mum of a girl and boy who’s also done it before the process felt much easier with DD.

For boys the more far flung options from SW London start to appear on the radar such as Whitgift and Trinity.

I never had to think this far geographically for my daughter. Plenty more local options for girls from genuinely very good schools, with a fairly wide mixed ability range.

Within the same radius there’s simply not the same options for boys.

Then there’s the desire for a lot of families with boys to want co-Ed but not nearly enough places on offer. So local co-Ed’s are very difficult for boys to get into.

@Geville if you are able to access the Economist graph, you’ll see that the baby boom here was not replicated in France or Germany - quite different patterns appear there.

Here is what the Guardian said about it at the time:

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwihn9H9tdj7AhXPTsAKHWkqDKoQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fuk-news%2F2013%2Faug%2F08%2Fuk-population-growth-baby-boom&usg=AOvVaw0Xac4S5WN5QXHuSW13Pg6W

What wasn’t predicted was the births would fall away as steeply as they did from 2013 onwards, leaving many surplus places in the primary/prep sector as our Y6 baby boomers move on upwards. It’s currently a planning headache for the higher and further education sectors - how to accommodate the approaching bulge without being left with redundant capacity afterwards.

@Sophiste thanks very much for this. I haven't got an Economist sub so I can't see the graph. It's really interesting though and thanks for explaining it to me. I wonder what caused the UK to explode like that. Fascinating that it didn't happen elsewhere.

Yes at DS's prep school and various others locally I hear there are spaces in Reception and lower years, also at local state schools too. For the first time ever a local state school dropped a flyer through our front door last week - I've never been 'advertised' to by a state school and it was for nursery and reception.

I keep explaining this to DS to reassure him that if he doesn't get in anywhere it is very much to do with the birth bulge and nothing to do with him and his ability (trying to soften the blow as much as possible as surely rejections will come).

But in the end it doesn't change anything that this is a monumentally difficult year.

At least this hard data within the Guardian article I can give to him to read so he does see it for himself and know I'm not making it up, it really is true. Thank you.

I can't imagine how hard it must be for schools to plan for this bulge. It's like seven years of plenty, seven years of lean, like something out of the bible. And possibly those seven years of lean will continue on into many more years as I don't think the birth rate is increasing.

It also has some other longer-term implications for university/further study for our children in this bracket also and perhaps the increased competition there again.

Europe looks more inviting/less difficult potentially. Maybe we will have rejoined the EU by then!