Teachers taking photos outside of school

[Always2022]

Hoping that somebody on here might be able to throw some light on a subject for me. Does anybody know the legalities of a Headteacher taking a photograph of a student after school and outside of the school grounds? I think she was hoping to catch out my ds (16) who is currently suspended for walking out of a class (not for anything violent, but he's clashing with his teacher and has very low tolerance at the moment). He was returning some trainers to a friend after school (outside of the grounds) and turned around to see the Headteacher taking photos of him! My instinct is that it can't be legal but I'm struggling to find the definitive answer to this via their policies on their website.
If anybody has any thoughts or even better knows what the legal standpoint would be, I'd be really grateful if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.

Op definitely said it was "outside school grounds whilst other children were still flocking out of school".
Nobody would assume from this that it was actually the local park.

The secondary my ds went to has a park outside the school.

So does our catchment school.

Another has a park 300m away.

Ime it's quite common for both to be true. The parks are off school grounds so visible from school.

But it's irrelevant when the suspension had ended and a park is a public place.

The action was entirely legal and weighing the contract.

The optics could be misinterpreted and the OP accents that.

I'd have given him a lift to that person's house instead. Allowing him to turn up at school when he is suspended is setting him up to fail.

It's not about school hours, it's about school property.

He should not be at school at the moment.

And some responding without even reading the thread.

The head may feel it was a safeguarding concern. That a child, whose behaviour has been alarming enough to merit exclusion so early in the year and in year 11 is being allowed to wander around outside school at kicking out time by the responsible adult in their life may well ring alarm bells.

The child has been excluded in his exam year at school in September for goodness sake, he is on very thin ice in terms of his chances of getting through this year and coming out with any qualifications which would have serious ramifications for him yet he is being allowed to hang around outside school with his mates at the end of the school day. Can you not see how that might be a cause for concern and a school would have a responsibility to document it? It could form part of a wider picture for some young people of neglect and vulnerability to all sorts of predation because there is no parental supervision in their lives. Even in nice leafy schools we have kids getting involved with County Lines or child sexual exploitation etc - we have a duty of care and can't win really - if we didn't care about things that were going on outside school we'd be in serious trouble, if we do care about it we must be perverts or little dictators trying to tell parents how to parent. Think and always, always rtft.

It was after school had ended, and it was off school grounds. He did not go into school. I very much doubt he was in school uniform and returning a pair of trainers is not a sanctionable offence in this time. A car is a private place, so as his mother drove him there, whenever he set off, he was in private until school had ended (well, 15 minutes after).

OP's son literally has done nothing wrong by being there.

Yeah, the chances of the HT hanging around the park 15 minutes after school finished are sort of slim to none, really. You know that.

The HT doesn't know if Mum is around somewhere in a car and come on, surely if your child has managed to be excluded in September, in year 11 your priority isn't nit picking over well technically they did nothing wrong and you don't get to tell me what to do? The child would have bugger all chance if that was the parental attitude. Any sane parent is keeping them well away from school and definitely not dropping encouraging them to hang around outside at kicking out time. Lessons may have ended but the school is open, the staff are still there doing duties at that time, the kids are still in the process of leaving etc.

Whose playing silly war games here? It's just common sense especially if you're trying to teach your child how to deal appropriately with rules and authority etc so that they can make it through school with some GCSEs by managing not to get excluded again and miss more education.

And yes JohnnysGirl - that's about as credible as a year 11 child being excluded within 2 weeks of the start of the year for 'just walking out of a lesson'.

And once again it will be the choices and actions of the responsible adult that the school is likely to be worried about not a child's who clearly has behaviour issues and is currently making poor life choices.

Well yes, because a responsible adult should have more self-control than a sixteen year old. Taking pictures of him is bizarre when she could have just spoken to him. Or phoned his parents to say he’d been to school.

The"responsible adult" in this situation is the parent, ffs!

Not the headteacher? Are you sure?

Absolutely sure.

I don’t know. I think the head teacher also has a responsibility to behave appropriately towards a child in their school who’s clearly struggling.

The parent absolutely. Are you quite well?

@Pumperthepumper agree - anyone who says a head teacher doesn't have responsibility for a child in their school is bonkers.

If the head teacher didn't have responsibility why take the photos?

I'm worried by the number of people who don't seem to be able to grasp that there are some HT who really will do things to make a case about a student who another school would support.

I'd say 99% of school staff and schools are really good.

The 1% who aren't are scarily abusive. And that experience can set some children up yo fail from day 1.

And I'm inclined to believe OP as she very graciously accepted that her decision could be taken the wrong way and she didn't really think it through.

The issue isn't really her decision - but the HT decision not to speak to the parent adult to adult at the time to resolve it.

In this case she would have met a reasonable parent who would have apologised for her decision and seen it wasn't wise.

Much better than going in defensive and not engage with the parents you want to engage with you.

Nobody said that. Pumper entirely twisted @swallowedAfly 's post.

Yes I'm baffled how it could be twisted to such a degree and in such a direction.

The HTs responsibility being safeguarding and being worried that a child who was suspended was hanging around school as far as they would know unsupervised would be served by him having evidence of that in case it was part of a wider pattern of parental neglect. If indeed they even did take a photo which has only been assumed and we only even have the suspended child's word that any of this even happened.

The responsible adult who should be supervising, making decisions etc for the child during a suspension is obviously the parent. Safeguarding requires us to be concerned and record things that happen outside of school hours and off of school property by the way.

I don't think OPs ds has been set up to fail from day one - apparently this is his first exclusion ever and he is in year 11 so this is also potentially a cause for concern for the school that there has been a dramatic change in behaviour and extreme acting out after 6 weeks at home.

I can understand the OPs perspective and how this made her feel but I can also totally see legitimate reasons for the school to be concerned and that documenting evidence can be a part of fulfilling that concern and their safeguarding duty. The HT is not psychic - all they know is that a suspended child who is legally meant to be at home is outside school (initially right after school so they'd definitely catch the friend coming out of the gate, later at least 10 or 15minutes after the bell for end of period 5) at the end of the school day. This, unless psychic, lack of appropriate parental supervision and response to an exclusion added to a dramatic change in behaviour after a 6 week holiday would require reporting at my school and any school that was properly undertaking it's safeguarding duties. If you don't like our safeguarding duties then it is people way higher up the food chain than an individual HT you need to take it up with.

Excellent post @swallowedAfly .

It's not a brand new thing but I think his frustration with many things have taken a toll - so we're working on it. He does have an issue with processing certain information - not an excuse for poor behaviour but most of the time he manages and then occasionally he gets overwhelmed then loses the ability to respond appropriately.
But you are excusing his behaviour. And this "occasionally he gets overwhelmed then loses the ability to respond appropriately" sounds like you are down playing a serious situation. Schools don't just suspend kids without a good reason.
Sorry op it sounds like you have your work cut out, but at 16 he really needs to understand his actions have consequences and it was very foolish to drop him at the school gate within 15 minutes of his suspension ending.

Dropping off trainers is not parental neglect; in fact it could be the exact opposite depending on the circumstances with the other pupil.

This child had been excluded from school. They are being punished. They should not be going out to the park to hang out with their mates.

Your selective comprehension MUST be deliberate Keto. Where was it said that dropping off trainers is a safeguarding issue? That takes spaghetti like levels of twisting. Ergo, I'm done responding as you are simply not being sincere or authentic.