Teachers taking photos outside of school

[Always2022]

Hoping that somebody on here might be able to throw some light on a subject for me. Does anybody know the legalities of a Headteacher taking a photograph of a student after school and outside of the school grounds? I think she was hoping to catch out my ds (16) who is currently suspended for walking out of a class (not for anything violent, but he's clashing with his teacher and has very low tolerance at the moment). He was returning some trainers to a friend after school (outside of the grounds) and turned around to see the Headteacher taking photos of him! My instinct is that it can't be legal but I'm struggling to find the definitive answer to this via their policies on their website.
If anybody has any thoughts or even better knows what the legal standpoint would be, I'd be really grateful if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.

@PriamFarrl Fair point.

Just to point out if your child was breaking the terms of the suspension it wouldn't be 'him' anyone was trying to target but you, as the parent.

The school's concern for a child can extend to being concerned that their parents are failing to hold the child accountable and to learn from their mistakes which is the point of a suspension in some ways and if upheld and reinforced by the parents. As you're aware it would be a parent, not a child, who would potentially face a fine.

I'm with others though in simply not believing a year 11 gets a fixed term exclusion a couple of weeks into term for walking out of a lesson. I suspect 'clashing with his teacher' may be a term that is minimising far more serious behaviour than walking out of one lesson, sorry. Schools just don't give FTEs for no reason, they are judged for everyone given by ofsted and overly avoid them if anything.

@itsgettingweird
I LOVE your post!

Bravo! It's not an easy path but when we have kids we commit to doing whatever it takes! Bloody well done to your ds!

Just to add to my post the HT would have no way of knowing you had dropped them off and were waiting in a car unless they saw you. For all they knew he could have been wandering around unsupervised all day and it could be a part of a wider pattern of neglect iyswim. Remember they have a duty to safeguard and record everything that is a concern. If they even did take a photo that is.

I didn’t say that alone explained all behaviours. That was your odd interpretation of what I said.

It's very provocative for an excluded child to be dropped off right outside of school just after the end of the school day. I'm not surprised the Head took a photo to evidence this.

Absolutely wrong choice to perform a trainer exchange just outside school property when so many children were still dispersing.

@swallowedAfly Good point

This

Undermining or questioning his headteacher over this is not going to help your son build good and respectful relationships with adults in authority.

Clashing with teachers to the point at which a suspension is warranted is the issue here. As is returning to the school premises while on suspension.

Imagine if another pupil or staff member who had commited a serious or violent offense flaunted their suspension to return some trainers. Suspension rules can be major safeguarding issues.

Do you not trust the teacher to act in your child's best interests?

And you couldn't think of any way of returning the trainers without dropping your ds off at school?

For future reference I can think of several:

You handing to reception at school and your ds texting his friend to say they're there.
You dropping them at friend's house.
You sitting in the car outside school, your ds having texted that to his friend
The friend dropping by your house
Giving to another friend to pass on at school

All come to mind without really taxing my brain.

And it isn't like when I was at school where we might not have an easy way of contacting said friend. If he was close enough to borrow his trainers, he's going to have his number in his phone.

The op has already said that it wasn’t about returning the trainers but about seeing the friends. Why they couldn’t organise something outside of school time I don’t understand. And why allow DS to see his friends when he is being punished I don’t know.

I don't fully understand a lot of the perspectives in here. If the child (yes a child!) Was not on school grounds why was a photo taken? If the headteacher (yes an adult!) Had a problem with this they should have said something and not just taken a photo? A parent and a child has the right to freedom and can do whatever they wish off of school grounds. How dare that Head say otherwise?! Sounds very wrong to me

A parent and a child has the right to freedom and can do whatever they wish off of school grounds. How dare that Head say otherwise?!

Not if the child is suspended. And if the child is suspended and in a public place, the person who will be in (legal) trouble is the parent not the child, so talking to the child would be talking to the wrong person.

@noblegiraffe unless im mistaken a suspended child is not under arrest? It was after school and not on the school grounds? If a school valued the parents they would allow them to PARENT rather than dictating their private family life? Perhaps its this attitude which is a barrier to managing behaviour and getting children to engage?!

unless im mistaken a suspended child is not under arrest? It was after school and not on the school grounds?

A suspended child is not legally allowed in public places during school hours, so if they are at the school at kicking out time, while not technically illegal, one would certainly wonder what the child had been up to in the minutes before the bell went.

A parent and a child has the right to freedom and can do whatever they wish off of school grounds.

Incidentally, although this isn't the case here, a head can sanction behaviour that happens after school and not on school grounds if the child is wearing school uniform.

Incidentally, although this isn't the case here, a head can sanction behaviour that happens after school and not on school grounds if the child is wearing school uniform.
Yes, this is true.

Thanks @noblegiraffe i was aware of the 5 day suspension not being in a public place during school hours. Cannot prove anything if out of school hours though, and I think that attempting to make criminals out of parents is not really the way forward is it?! Taking photos on a mobile phone isnt professional and how does that support behaviour management? Heads on a power trip and nobody is actually supporting the child back to school or working WITH the parents. Really poor approach all round I would say. I am against exclusions in schools (work in a school too) and have never found it works.

Heads on a power trip and nobody is actually supporting the child back to school or working WITH the parents
How do you know this, exactly?

Heads on a power trip and nobody is actually supporting the child back to school or working WITH the parents.

Way to pre-judge the head here. Do you actually know that the child will not be having the usual reintegration meeting with parents involved before returning to lessons?

I am against exclusions in schools (work in a school too) and have never found it works.

It certainly can give the other kids a break. People who are against exclusions usually forget about everyone else involved.

@noblegiraffe i know that a headteacher taking a photograph of a child near school out of school hours isnt going to be helpful. A head perhaps engaging with a child they have seen may be more positive or of some use at least. A reintegration meeting is all fair and well, but the head has certainly undermined themselves in this situation. Its not professional and would seem that they are afraid of, or simply writing off, the child in question. Fair point regarding other children and supporting their learning, but you surely can see how very pathetic the heads behaviour is?! Is this how you would expect a headteacher to behave? Hiding behind a phone to try and score points against a parent?! Because why else would they be doing that?

Maybe the head has had previous parents swearing blind that their child didn't leave the house all day and was definitely not hanging around the school at kicking out time. 🤷‍♀️

Anyone anti exclusion has clearly never been involved with sexual abuse between peers in school. Anti exclusion policies are anti safeguarding other pupils. Pro better funding and support for excluded students would be much better than banning exclusions.

The head can now have the conversation about what the student was doing on Friday during the reintegration meeting. The head has proof the child was there (if indeed the HT was taking a photograph). The child/parents actions may have been legal, not sure they were very well thought through.

Very strange post... 🤔

The OP has said over and over it was 10-15 minutes after school ended and in a park near the school. After the suspension ended.

If the Ht had concerns about that rather than using the phone the take photos to show OP at reintegration meeting as a kind of "gotcha" (if that is indeed what the point is but if it isn't why take them 🤷‍♀️) couldn't they have just used said oh one to ring OP and engage with her.

Everything the OP has said on here shows she would have engaged reasonably and accepted the optics of it weren't great and been able to engage with HT.

I've met many a teacher and Ht who are wonderful and really want to support pupils who are struggling. There are an odd few who don't and want to win points the battles and the war. If that's the case here the OP is right to be concerned because she's trying really hard to support her ds as a parent but can't fight the school as well.

The OP has said over and over it was 10-15 minutes after school ended and in a park near the school.

The OP also said But a Headteacher, taking a photograph of a student, outside of the school at a time when all the other students are flocking out of school..

So it's not entirely clear.

I can imagine a HT being at the school gates while the students are leaving. I can't really picture one being in a local park 15 minutes after the end of school.

So people are responding based on two different versions of events.